Mark Gillmore: Hello, once again, I’m Mark Gilmore here with our Go Mission podcast.

And I’m sitting here in a little recording studio, but I’m here with a friend of mine.

I’ll introduce him in a moment.

And we’re not going to imagine that we’re in a recording studio.

We’re imagining that we’re talking to you and about 900 other young people that we have really a privilege to open up your mind. to just an amazing window on the world.

And my friend here today with me is Brother Eric.

And he has been involved in global mission work for now for over 30 years.

And it’s an incredible privilege to have him sitting here with me.

So welcome, brother.

Well, thank you very much.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Good to speak.

Yes, sir.

It’s good to be with you.

And you’ve journeyed even to be with me here together and with the young people.

Now, God gave you an opportunity to connect you to the region of Africa.

And so tell me about the country of Africa.

Brother Eric: We laugh about that because that was a point that I made earlier today, that most people refer to Africa as a country.

It’s not a country.

It is a continent.

Oh, yes.

Continent, it’s the second largest continent in both land mass and in population.

Yes.

Very vast area, very needy area in many different ways.

And it’s been my privilege to be connected to there for many years.

Mark Gillmore: You were telling us about just the size of the Sahara Desert can fit.

What of our geography can fit inside of that?

Brother Eric: The 48 continental United States can fit inside the Sahara Desert.

Most people don’t realize it’s that big.

Mark Gillmore: And that’s just the north half of Africa.

Yes. that can fit in the entire United States that we’re familiar with.

So this is a vast region of the world.

And I’ve had the privilege to travel in some places.

And you were just describing how that went, especially like across the top there, you’ve got the east and you’ve got the west and then the north, then down into the central and south.

And just kind of give us a bit of a summary of just the spiritual nature of those different regions.

What was the region that you attached to as you entered the country?

What was that?

Brother Eric: Yeah, I was mostly in the eastern region, you know, it was Africa.

And we actually lived there for 20 years.

And the predominant language of that region is Swahili.

So I am a fluent Swahili speaker.

And we lived and worked there in the eastern part.

The northern region of Africa, for the most part, is more of your Islamic region there.

And just in spite of many people’s perception, it is open to the gospel.

There are dynamics that do make it politically difficult for us to be able to get into some of those areas.

But they are open to the gospel and people are searching and they’re wanting to know truth.

West Africa has been a region where they’ve had missionaries for quite some time, but it’s mostly still your strong animism.

You have certain countries there in the western part of Africa that have actually voodoo as one of their national religions.

And so, yes, the missionary is fighting against areas that Satan has had and has been in control of for many generations.

And he does not give up territory easily.

But we thank the Lord that the word of God is much more powerful.

And it goes on into the central region is where a lot of mission work needs to be done today.

There is a dearth of pioneer mission work that are needing to go to the central region.

And we really need to be able to bring some attention to that area.

A lot of people have gone to the southern region of Africa.

You have very developed countries in there, such as the country of South Africa. and other areas that have good facilities and they have good amenities there, but still just vast swaths of people without a good gospel influence at all.

They say that there’s nearly a thousand unreached people groups right now currently living today in our generation in Africa right now.

Mark Gillmore: Now, you were, God landed you in Kenya, And you served there about 20 years.

And just kind of summarize what you saw God do in that region that you were in.

I know you planted several churches.

Those folks have gone in planting others.

Just how did God work as you landed there in Kenya?

Brother Eric: Well, I was asked to actually just go there temporarily just to be able to help another ministry for a little while and then to be able to go to another area of Africa. but God allowed me to just go there to be able to plug in.

And God helped me to really have a develop a love there for the northern region of Kenya.

It was my desire as I surrendered to the Lord’s calling that he would allow me to go to a place that did not have the gospel and would not have it unless someone physically took it there.

Amen.

And that’s what basically God did.

And I work mostly with the nomadic areas of northern Kenya.

There are wonderful missionaries and there’s wonderful national ministries in a lot of the major cities there of Kenya.

But we work mostly up in the northern regions.

And we helped to establish some churches and had other churches that were started generations ago that needed some additional help and further training by now.

But Lord helped there.

And to the Lord’s glory, there has been multiple churches now that they’ve started and started others and started others.

And it’s wonderful to be a grandfather, so to speak, of ministries that have been planted there in the indigenous process that’s gone on.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Nearly over 40 churches, I believe, you were saying.

Yes, sir.

And that network now.

Yes.

Hallelujah.

Now, you shared with me a little bit of how you would take, really train all your members, but as you discipled them, and then you’d see them to begin able to actually take really almost baby steps into church planting.

Yes.

How did that process work?

Brother Eric: Well, the Lord actually helped to give some of those ideas years and years ago through what I witnessed in another region of the world, where I saw a national church reproduce itself four or five times.

And I was just amazed by that.

And we definitely didn’t see that a whole lot in our context.

And it was the discipleship programs and how they would teach one-on-one and then they would then uh turn that discipler and make a disciple and make him a discipler and then he would turn and then he would try to teach someone some were given a gift some were good at teaching some were not but that helped to show us who were uh the ones that we could be able to uh further train uh as in second timothy 2 2 you know it tells us to do to be able to take those that are able to be taught and they can be able to teach others also.

And so God allowed us to be able to see that and show us to build the ministries that they could be able to be a part of.

We had a couple of different levels of discipleship where each person was pretty much on the same page in the congregation, doctrinally and also positionally.

And then they were experientially somewhat in church planning, being teaching in different levels, trying to be able to help others to understand.

And it was exciting.

Mark Gillmore: Yes, yes.

That’s just powerful.

Someone said, train everyone.

And then the ones who obey will be the ones bearing fruit.

And then also the leadership gifts will come to the surface.

Yes.

And that’s really what you saw God do.

And now.

Brother Eric: So therefore, church planning becomes a natural byproduct of that.

Yes.

You have your regular common church members that are equipped enough to be able to do basic church planning.

Mark Gillmore: Right.

So sometimes the thought is that the missionary is the church planter.

And we had to get away from that.

Yes.

To every believer in the witness potentially being a church planter.

That’s right.

And then, of course, that process of growing them in their knowledge of the word of God.

And that is just so thrilling to hear.

Now, we’ve got other regions of the world.

You mentioned of Africa there.

You mentioned that central area.

What would be those countries?

Brother Eric: There’s multiple countries there.

I mean, technically, there’s about nine countries that would be considered in the central region there.

But I think you spent some time in Cameroon.

Definitely be more the northern part of the central area.

Yes.

You have the Central African Republic.

You have Chad.

You have Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Republic of Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo.

And even you can include Angola sometimes in that same region there.

Mark Gillmore: Uh-huh.

And is Zambia in there or Zambia?

Brother Eric: More considered a little more southern.

More to the south.

Gotcha.

Yeah, simply because culturally they’re more connected, more to the old British Empire, which would be more of your old Rhodesia, which that region was.

Mark Gillmore: Now, when I think of Central Africa, and you mentioned Democratic Republic of Congo, I think of the story of C.T.

Studd.

Oh, yes.

Who was wanting to get to the unreached of Africa, and he went through the Sudan and found missionaries were already there.

Yeah.

And he just kept going, and he landed in Congo.

Yeah.

And Congo has been a crazy place with missionaries over the years, but you were mentioning that it’s possible to go into Congo now or the Republic of Congo.

Yes.

Brother Eric: We actually have missionaries in the Republic of Congo.

It’s the smaller Congo.

Yes.

But the Democratic Republic of Congo, I mean, it’s been very, very unstable for many years.

We can be able to do evangelism and go in on short trips in.

There is a possibility through the east, possibly through Rwanda, Burundi, where ministries from that side can be able to reach across the border and be able to make effect there.

But politically, it’s difficult to get a family to physically live there long term.

Mark Gillmore: Okay.

Okay.

It’s been one of my dreams to, I’ve been up into Uganda, the Nile region of Uganda, to just get a visa across the border and just go a few hours into where OIT stud was up on that side.

Yeah.

And maybe the one of these days I’ll be able to do that.

But you had mentioned just how that, I think God, one of the greatest experiences that anyone could ever have is bringing the gospel to a place where it wouldn’t have come if you didn’t go.

Yes.

And I think that’s one of the greatest privileges we could ever have on this side of knowing Christ as Savior and on the other side of entering heaven to bend a vehicle for the gospel reaching somewhere where it hasn’t gone.

Yes, sir.

And Africa offers that privilege.

Oh, yes, very much.

If you would just go.

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

Just go.

Have you had the privilege of bringing and introducing folks into Africa for the first time and encouraging them to open their eyes in that way?

What do you…

Brother Eric: Well, I’ve taken people with some trips.

I’ve taken them there.

But a lot of my challenge is to be able to educate the average church member here in the States and young people, because many times they can’t feel called to a country they’ve never heard of.

Yes.

And at least to be able to bring an awareness.

I think an awareness is the first thing.

You know, God does direct and guide and he calls, but we have to bring that awareness that’s there.

It’s been very exciting to be able to go on some trips.

I take multiple trips there every year, but now I’m more of an administrative role.

But to be able to take people there and see them see the taste firsthand of missions firsthand, where they’ve been supporting it for years.

They’ve read letters about it for years, but to be able to see it, experience it, and actually get the taste of it.

Mark Gillmore: There’s part of them that will be changed forever.

Yes.

I think as a young man, I remember seeing those pictures of mud huts and so forth from missionary slideshows.

But that’s completely changed for me since traveling now for the last 15, 20 years over there.

I can’t think of Africa the way I used to.

And it was so far off this distant, fearful place.

And we’ve got to break down those barriers and get your feet on the ground in Africa.

Maybe there’s some young person listening here today.

Maybe you’re a new Christian and you’re just becoming aware of a global call for evangelism.

And maybe you’ve heard of Africa, thought of it as some scary place with wild animals and so forth.

And I tell you what, it’s full of people who need Christ to hear Him for the first time.

And maybe God will give you an opportunity to take a trip, take a trip to Africa.

I’ll be going there in just a few weeks myself.

You’ll be going there as well.

And a number of years ago, I’m thinking of, you know, even going back 100 and 200, there were waves of missionary and a call of young people surrendering.

And now we can kind of think that maybe that was past history. should missions surrender and missions movements be only past history oh no my oh my no no no no

Brother Eric: and there there is a need today for a not for the whole dynamic of missionaries we need pioneer missionaries to be able to go into areas where christ maybe has been named a couple generations ago but they have been he’s not been named for a while uh new areas uh we have areas where teams can be able to be formed uh where people with a variety of abilities and god-given talents can be able to use their spiritual gifts to their fullest uh we can uh there’s there’s regions where you can be able to establish um not only churches but training institutions to be able to help the national Christians to be able to reach their own.

And that’s what we’re all about.

We’re able to, we’re wanting not only to reach and to bring the knowledge of salvation, to establish churches, but also to continue the Great Commission.

Because once again, one third or two thirds of the Great Commission is not enough.

We want to do all three.

And that is to train them, to teach them to do all things.

And we need to be able to train them to reach their own people because Africa will be reached by their own people.

Yes.

There’s plenty of areas where I cannot go.

I would not be allowed to go.

I would not be accepted to go.

Or physically it would be impossible for a foreigner to be able to go.

They can be able to go.

They have the capability.

They have the resources that is there locally, the cultural knowledge, and to be experienced to be able to do that.

We need to go to win, to train, to empower, and allow God to be able to work through them.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

So the role is not only just thinking of that pioneer work, it’s the partner work.

That’s good.

And as we think of a generation of maturing missionaries moving off the field, that partnering work is as needed as ever.

Oh, yes.

And we need new generations of young people to come kind of just be continuing that role that God would want us to have in mission work in Africa.

So we haven’t missed the age of missions.

No.

Or the age of harvest.

This is a great day to get involved in missions in Africa.

And yet, as we were discussing earlier, there seems to be some characteristics that seem to be in the way of that kind of surrender.

We talked about just that tendency for young people to sit kind of back on the sidelines waiting for some kind of a zap to kind of move them into missions.

Yes.

Maybe a bit of a passivity.

Speak to that a little bit as far as your burden on how that we cannot be content with just a passive response to the need of the hour.

Yes.

And young people needing to move ahead into.

Brother Eric: Well, what I’m concerned about is that there’s plenty of young people that they’ve had good preaching.

They’ve had good teaching and they are willing to surrender to God’s will.

That’s definitely the first step.

But unfortunately, sometimes right now, we want more steps between the surrendering process and full, complete commitment.

And what we need that for that to be as short as possible, we need to surrender, but also take steps to commit and go. there is a dynamic right now where there does seem to be a passivity a little bit where we kind of wait for God to be able to come and just drop it in our lap.

We’re waiting for, you know, the road to Damascus type call or something where God’s going to really come down on us and show us the exact way.

And here’s the way walk you in it and take it and go.

And I’ve even had one young man actually say, is it wrong for me to pray for God to do that to me?

I’m like, well, how do you answer that way?

You know, no one’s out wrong to pray anyways, but God usually doesn’t work that way.

God honors faith.

Faith is taking steps towards his will.

And, you know, God is calling, he’s directing, he’s already given us a call. and with the need of the hour of so many areas of the world that have absolutely no clear gospel witness, I cannot believe that there is not an overwhelming abundance of young people that need to respond to the call that God has already given them and said, God, will you allow me to go to the mission field?

I’m going to head that way.

And if you don’t want me there, then please stop me. instead of the absolute opposite, where we have young people wanting to be involved in here in the States and be involved in praise the Lord.

We have ministry needs here in the States.

We need them here.

Yes, definitely.

But with the need around the world, they need to head to the mission field and allow God to stop them and redirect them.

We need to be stepping, making these steps of faith.

And not only I would say to give to the young people to take these steps, but to their parents and to their family members, allow them the freedom to follow God’s will.

Don’t hinder your own child, your own young person, your own family member from following God’s calling in their life.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

It’s almost like they’ll surrender or will surrender and we’ll feel that maybe we’re not ready or we don’t know enough yet, or there’s all these uncertainties and knowns in front of us.

And That’s not faith.

That’s not faith.

And I think that’s such a powerful point.

Faith has to always have present an element of risk.

Yes.

Or unknown uncertainty.

Yes.

And if that presence of those factors are going to keep you holding back, you’re going to be back for a lifetime.

Yes, that’s correct.

And as you step forward and as you think of parents and other, you know, other trainers in the lives of young people, if we’re kind of waiting till everything’s perfect in their lives, we’re actually holding them back from the very things that are going to enable them to grow and to become what God wants them to be.

Exactly.

So the point you’re making is if you’re surrendered, if God’s touched you, and really the only thing we need to surrender is a word from God.

And that’s clear, right?

So you’re surrendered, then don’t hang back requiring something of God, something more than his word.

Right.

If his word…

Asking for something extra biblical.

Yes.

Yes.

And if his word has said it and his spirit has echoed that in your heart, then go that direction.

And step by step.

Guest Speaker: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: And that’s really your story.

Yes.

That’s exactly what your story was.

Brother Eric: And God will always lead and he will always direct.

Yes.

Always.

Always. but he will respond to yours, to your act of faith.

Mark Gillmore: So for without faith, it is, it’s impossible.

It’s impossible.

It’s impossible.

So as we respond to God, God’s also waiting to respond to us as we take those steps of faith.

Yeah.

So we just want to encourage you here as we think of the vast regions of Africa and the incredible need and opportunities that there, that young people don’t be caught sitting back passive.

There’s things that you can do right now.

You can evangelize in your school, in your neighborhood.

You can evangelize.

You can disciple someone.

You can begin to pray.

For those you know in Africa, you can take a trip.

But don’t put this gap between surrender and commitment, between really surrender and obedience.

Obey where you are.

And those of us as adults in roles, let’s encourage our young people to be taking those steps of faith.

So thank you, Brother Eric, for your time and for giving us this challenge and this window into the world of Africa.

And so remember, in these days of uncertainty and turmoil, the only way to stay at peace is to stay on mission with Jesus in his Go Mission.

Guest Speaker: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Thee Generation Podcast.

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To join hundreds of others who have signed the commitment, please visit thegeneration.org.

Guest Speaker: That’s thegeneration.org. slash pledge.