Janna Faith Van Gelderen: Hello there, I’m Janna. 

Anna Faith Gillmore: And I’m Anna Faith, and welcome to episode 20 of Faith Talks.

Now, as you all heard in our last podcast, we’re starting out 2023 with a new theme of relationships. So we’ll be going through different family relationships, friend relationships, and even touching on some opposite gender relationships and how we should handle those. But this week we’re going to focus on building relationships for the purpose of reaching lost souls around us. We’ll also focus on some relationships in general and just principles, how to build them, what hinders them, what the purpose of relationships are for, how to balance them in our daily walk of life. 

Janna: And you know, we were talking just a couple minutes ago with Mrs. Shaw just about relationships and how Jesus and His life relationships were so important for Him. And I think that’s an excellent point to bring out too. And I’m very excited to have with us today, Mrs. Shaw. She is here because her husband is teaching a class, or maybe she’s here for the grandkids, or maybe a little bit of both. But I’m super excited to have her. And do you mind just telling us a little bit about yourself and what do you do? 

Karen Shaw: Okay, thank you, Janna and Anna for this opportunity to discuss a topic that the Lord has been teaching me for a number of years and is still teaching me. I’ve been a pastor’s wife for over 47 years and we have 3 great children and 16 wonderful grandchildren. I was also a registered nurse but only worked part time off and on over the years. My priority was family and church. We’re so thankful for God allowing us to be used in His ministry. 

Janna: I’ve been to a couple of the different churches when you were a pastor’s wife, so that’s neat too. 

Anna Faith: Now, would you just share just a little bit of your testimony, your salvation testimony, and just kind of a timeline of how God brought you to ministry and just your story there? 

Mrs. Shaw: Okay. I grew up in West Virginia out in the country, and not far from our church was a little country — not far from our home, was a little tiny country church and when I was small we start attending there. They only had lay pastors and they mostly preached about salvation. But when I was nine years old, I realized that I was a sinner and needed to accept Jesus as my Savior so I would go to Heaven. And I remember going to the pastor and telling him that I wanted to know that I could go to heaven. And so he prayed with me and I prayed and asked Jesus to come into my heart and to save me. And after that Sunday, things were different in my life. I loved the Bible, I loved reading my Bible and I loved going to church. The trouble was, as I was growing up, there was a lot of preaching about salvation but nobody told us really how to live for the Lord. How did what I do with the Bible and how do I apply the principles of God’s Word to my life. So, I struggled during my teen years, but I am so thankful that God protected me because I… I did not like loud music. It was back in the day when things were pretty bad. I didn’t like dancing. I didn’t like those things. I didn’t get involved into some of the things that my friends did just because I had a distaste for it. I met my husband in college, and we actually married between our junior and senior year of college. But we both had hearts to live for God, and we wanted to know more about God. So we began to search, and we went to several different kinds of churches and finally, one day in biology class a friend invited us to a special meeting that they were having at their church. 

Now, I want to just interject here. Don’t ever hesitate to invite somebody to come along with you to church or to youth activity or anything like that, that  they might to learn about Jesus because that visit to that church that night changed our lives. And I’m so thankful for my friend that was not afraid to invite me to church. She was in my biology class. So we went to the service that night. And we had been wanting to know more about the Bible, but yet that night we did not carry our Bibles to church because, every church we visited, nobody had their Bibles. So we did not carry our Bibles to church that night, and we were the only ones there, I think, without a Bible. So we realized then that that’s where we should be going to church so we could learn more about the Bible. So after we graduated from our undergrad work, we went on, my husband decided that he wanted to go on to Bible school so he could learn more about the Bible and be a good Sunday school teacher. Well, because he had no Bible background, they put him in a four-year program. When he graduated, he was a good Sunday school teacher. So, the Lord led us then to start a small church in a community of 178 people in eastern Ohio, and we served there for over 23 years, and I think we left part of our heart in that community. But… After that time period, then the Lord led my husband to help start the Bible college here. And so we were here for five and a half years, but he missed the pastorate. He missed shepherding people. So we just prayed for about a year that the Lord would show us if we were supposed to go back into the ministry of a local church. We didn’t advertise, we didn’t put up a bulletin board that said, “hey, we want a church.” But a church called and said, “pastor, would you be willing to come to our church?” And so it took a while, but we were there, and we were there for over 10 years. And then my husband started having really bad health problems. And he had a heart attack. And numerous things happened. And he’s one of these men that’s 24-7. And he felt like he wasn’t giving the church 24-7, so he stepped down. And the Lord did a wonderful thing. He just healed him really through; we met some specialists that helped him. So he was feeling much, much better. We began to pray, Lord, how can you use us now? And so in our retirement years now, we have been helping other churches. We were in Illinois for almost a year helping them get a pastor. And now we’ve been in West Virginia for over three years trying to get a pastor in there for that church. So that’s what we’re doing, we’re keeping busy. 

Janna: So you started in West Virginia and now you’re back. 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, and it’s actually in the town where we went to college, so it’s been really interesting. Yeah. 

Janna: Full circle there. Well, as we go into just talking about relationships, obviously the most important relationship any of us are gonna have is our relationship with the Lord. So, just a quick question, what are some things you feel have grown your relationship with the Lord the most? 

Mrs. Shaw: Okay, I had good parents and one of the priorities in their life was for us to be in church. So they taught us faithfulness to church and my mom was really good about putting a priority on everything at church. I mean, a lot of times we were the ones that cleaned the church, we mowed the church yard, you know. So, just having a priority and a love for God, you know, was instilled from my parents. No matter what was going on, no matter if we didn’t want to go to church, we would go to church. So we went to several other churches for special meetings, for revivals and such. So I think listening to the preaching of God’s word through the years and then obeying what I heard and what I learned, my own personal reading and Bible study myself, just doing some book studies, some word studies, as I took steps of obedience when I heard God’s word and began to honor God, I saw that He honored me. So I wanted to learn and grow. And let me say, I’m still learning and still growing. You never quit. So I think that would be the thing — just being in God’s house and hearing God’s word preached and then being in it myself has helped me. 

Anna Faith: Moving along to our next question, how has your relationship with the Lord affected other relationships? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, I think, Anna, as we build our relationship with the Lord through our own personal Bible studying growth, then we want others to experience the same thing. We want to share something that is good with others. We know, and we have the peace and joy in our heart that God gives us, and we’re living in a society that needs that peace and joy and a lot of people are looking for it. So, at salvation, we become a disciple of Jesus. We are a follower of Him. The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts to teach us and convict us. There should be a new desire in our hearts to please Him and to be like Jesus who is our example. And Jesus loved others; He loved His disciples. Remember, He loved the woman at the well, the lame, the blind. He loved people and He went out of His way to meet their needs, and His desire was to help them. That should be the same desire that we have for others. 

I think of the acrostic joy. I love that word joy. I think I want to put on my tombstone. Jesus first, others second, and self last. And John 13:35 says, “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if you have love one to another.” So I think reaching out and loving others. 

Janna: That’s huge. And just thinking about how a relationship is not something you just, okay, I built that relationship and now we’re good. But it’s just the continual growth that you’re having even with, you know, it could be your husband or whatever, but you’re just continuing growing that relationship. Would you say there’s different things that you’ve done that would have continually just grown that relationship with God, whether it’s daily or? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, I think just continuing, well, to look for opportunities, grow myself, and through Bible studies, discipleship. Discipleship is really good because you are one on one going through the Bible and you can open up and talk to one and it’s sharing burdens and things. Just teach it even Sunday school. If you’re in the Word, you’re gonna grow. And being in the Word is important. 

Anna Faith: That’s good. Now we had been talking before this and just you were sharing your, how God has used you to develop relationships with others. I know you mentioned about a neighbor relationship that you had developed. So would you just share with us a little bit about that and just how God used you to even give the gospel and just give that inroad into that life? Mrs. Shaw: Okay. Let me say at the outset that the definition of a relationship is connecting with people. We all have relationships within our families, neighbors, co-workers, people that we meet daily. So it’s important to realize as a child of God, we should look for opportunities in these relationships to demonstrate Christ. It has been said that the only Bible that some people will read is you. So, it’s important. So when we moved into this little town of Glenford with a population of 178, I met the neighbor across the street, and her name was Linda. She was a very devout and loyal churchgoer, every Sunday morning. She had two little girls at the time, and one of them was about the age of our daughter, so we began to connect in that way. I began to reach out to her and invited the little girls to a Bible club that I had started. And, she let them come, but I would invite her to church, but she rarely would come because she was all involved in her church. So, years passed; we moved down into the country, but we kept in touch. We were both nurses and had things in common, so I kept in touch with her, and sometimes we would have tea together. And then, they went through a period of a real hard time. He had lost his job; they were just having lots of problems. So we would take food in and just reached out to them, and just loved them. 

It was ten years, and I get a call and she wants to know what time our services are the next morning, and they started attending regularly on Sunday morning and the entire family of six got saved. Their former church that they had attended for, since she was a child began to compromise things and wanted to change the translation of their Bible. They didn’t agree with that, and they knew where we stood, so they packed up and came to our church. We have continued our friendship, and I value it; she’s very special. She’s visited us in every ministry that we’ve been involved in. She comes to see us. We share prayer requests, and we keep in touch regularly. If we have prayer requests, that’s usually who I’ll call and say, Linda, pray, and she’ll do the same. It’s vice versa. There’s that bond that has just developed over the years just from getting to know her. She’s a wonderful Bible teacher now, and she’s like a sister to me. 

Janna: That’s really special. And you kind of shared this, but in developing relationships, how have you also just seen this be able to give you an inroad into gospel conversation or gospel encounters? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, I believe God puts us where He wants us, to be a light in whatever area we’re in. So we have to always be looking for opportunities to reach out. And, when I move into an area, I try to get to know my neighbors. I usually reach out with baking cookies or bread or something, and I look for opportunities to be a blessing to them. One home that we lived in, our trash cans were put out on the street side by side. And so, we just started taking their trash can to their door after it had been emptied, you know? After a time, we began to notice that when we weren’t home right at the time to put it away, they would bring ours to the door. You know, simple little things. You know, sometimes we think it has to be grand and glorious, but simple little things to show people that you’re thinking of them and you care about them. 

And I know a lot of people that have lived in a home for years and do not know their neighbors. That is very sad to me. We cannot have influence on people if we don’t make some kind of contact with them. So, we reached out to those people and that simple act of kindness just grew, and they told us one time that they started back to church, just from watching us go to church all the time. They were convicted. Now, it wasn’t a real good church, but they went back, you know? It made them start thinking about spiritual things. And then when they began to have marital problems, they came over and said, “can we talk to you?” So we had the opportunity then to give them the gospel and share with them. Many times we do not know what’s going on in people’s lives and the burdens that they have. So we need to be kind, because everyone’s… you meet is traveling maybe a difficult journey. And there’s no substitute for a good deed, but simply helping a stranger laugh or smile can help lighten a load. Just, I think that’s about it. 

Anna Faith: Now you had said that you’ve been in ministry for 47 years. So even just thinking, I know we have a lot of pastors’ daughters or just different people in the ministry that listen to this podcast. How would you say that you have found balancing family relationships in your ministry and also with the outreach mindset? What are your thoughts on that? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, we’ve always included our children. If anything needed to be done, you know, we did it as a family — we were a team. And so, we made time for others with our children, you know, and just used them in that way. And I’m so thankful because most of them are… two of the three children are in ministry, and they all were in ministry at one time but two of them are still in the ministry and being used. I’m thankful for that, and I think it was just, sometimes kids can become bitter because their parents are so involved, but we just included our kids so at the time they seemed to just… love it, you know?

Janna: I like what my dad says when, like, people ask that question He’ll say, “well, the right answer is not really that you have to balance them, but more that they are one thing.” You know, like family and ministry can go together. It doesn’t have to be, ‘okay, I got to give some time to this and some time to this.’ Why not just include it in both? And I guess that was kind of my whole life was we just did stuff as we were in ministry together. 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, right. 

Janna: It’s really special. And then it imparts your heart to your kids too.

Mrs. Shaw: Oh, yeah. And sometimes the Lord enables you in the ministry to do things that you would never have done had you not been in the ministry, you know? So, and I think dwelling on the good things that the Lord allows, and just being thankful for those things. “Look kids, we wouldn’t have been able to have done this had we not been in the ministry,” you know? And God does bless, you know, with special things. So I’m thankful for that. 

Janna: Now you mentioned just those long-term, or not long-term, long-distance relationships that you’ve maintained? I know for one, I am bad at that. Like if I’m with people, it’s easy for me to remember, but then sometimes, you know, if it’s you moved away or it’s a long friend, just keeping in contact that helped?

Mrs. Shaw: I really have, I don’t know what it is, I just love people. So I know most of my friends, I know their birth dates, and even though we’ve moved away and haven’t seen each other for a long time, I still send them cards. Occasionally if I know they’re going through a problem, I’ll text or call. If it’s a real issue, I call them if I hear about it. And sometimes they’ll call me and say, “Karen, I need you to pray about this.” But, and it takes effort. Because usually at the first of every month I’ll look and say, now which ones of my friends have birthdays this month? And I’ll try. 

I had a real blessing over Christmas because I worked with somebody over 30 years ago, and I’ve maintained a friendship with her. And we went through a real, I went through a real trial with her because she lost a daughter. And so because of that we’ve just been, we’ve maintained that sweet relationship, just usually once or twice a year. And so at Christmas time she sent me a gift out of the blue. That was so special, you know, because she was thinking of me, you know? And that, those things are just really a blessing. So, but you have to, and it takes effort, you have to just make yourself text, or write, or send a card, or something. 

Janna: The word I think of is like intentional. You definitely have to be intentional about remembering and just, care about them and even their birthday or what they’re going through or stuff like that. It’s a big deal. 

Mrs. Shaw: Yeah, it is. And people appreciate it. Don’t you appreciate it when somebody sends you a card or something? 

Janna: Yeah! I don’t even know if this has quite happened to me before, but on Sunday somebody came up and just randomly gave me a coffee gift card. And like it wasn’t my birthday, it wasn’t anything. And they were just like, you know, do you still go to this coffee shop? Like here you can go get some coffee. And they just sent me a… and I was just like I think I just told my sister like three different times during the day like “That was just so sweet” like there was no reason not like you deserved it or you know, it’s not like you’re on a special occasion, but it means a lot when somebody just cares and wants to be a blessing 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, right.

Anna Faith: Now moving on just to relationship advice or even just principles that you found and we’ve kind of talked about some of these things already but how would you say sometimes people are like well I don’t know like I need to; I don’t have that many friends; how do I build a relationship… how would you say especially like with the outreach side of things to build a relationship? 

Mrs. Shaw: Okay I think it comes with spending time with them and sharing your heart looking for ways to be a blessing to them. Being there for them when you know they have a need, praying together, serving the Lord together. I think it’s key to not to be easily offended, because sometimes we wear our feelings on our shoulder or something. You’ve heard that before. One of my favorite verses, and I memorized this many years ago, because people do hurt you sometimes, maybe intentionally, maybe not intentionally, but Psalm 119:165 says, “great peace have they that love thy law, and nothing shall offend them.” So, When we love God, we’ll just overlook things. And sometimes, you know, people are going through things, they might have a headache or something and may be short with you or something. And you just have to overlook those little things and have a forgiving spirit. Ephesians 4:32 says, “Be kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.” And so we need to look for opportunities, for needs. A key, I think, is listening to people and picking up on things they say, so that you get to know them personally. I intentionally will try to listen to things that, occasionally you’ll be talking to somebody they’ll say, oh, I just love Tootsie Rolls or whatever. So I’ll jot that down in the back of my brain. She loves Tootsie Rolls. So maybe I’ll be out and about and I’ll find some Tootsie Rolls and I’ll put them in a little bag and give them to her. Just little things that you can do for others and show that you care about them, but you have to take the initiative. If the Lord burdens you to do that, ou need to take the initiative and look for ways to be a blessed blessing. 

And I also pay attention, like if they would say, now I have a friend that’s going to supposed to have eye surgery on Monday. So I’ll call her Monday and say, how did your eye surgery go? You know, I try to just remember things that people have told me and follow up with those things. 

Janna: Now I know you mentioned bitterness as something that could hinder or really destroy a relationship. Are there other things that you’ve just really seen can tear down relationships? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, I think we’re living in a very selfish, self-centered world and we don’t want to take the time to be bothered with building relationships. We also, I mentioned this a few minutes ago, we’re easily offended, and we’re unforgiving. We remember what so-an-so did to me six years ago and we’re not having anything to do with them. In the day and time that we’re living, we need to just be conscious that God wants to show His love through us to others. And I think that’s key. Just… And those are some of the things that hinder us when we allow bitterness, you know, or unforgiveness. Those are key. We have to let them go. 

Anna Faith: I feel like even just like asking God to give you a selflessness in your relationships and saying, okay, these relationships aren’t about me, and all the friends that I have so I can show everyone how good of a friend I am, 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, right.

Anna Faith: but just letting God’s love through you to just reach out to others and just bless them. 

Mrs. Shaw: And sometimes you do develop closer relationships with other some than others because you have more maybe more things in common, but that still doesn’t mean that we can’t reach out to everybody really, you know, I try in the churches that I’ve been at I’ve tried to get to know everybody and love everybody, really, try to do you know kind and good deeds to everybody, but there are certain ones that you just feel closer bond to. Yeah, yeah, but not deliberately, you know, it’s just the way the Lord brings people into your life that you have things in common and can build on those things. 

Janna: One thing I’ve just tried to do when, you know, maybe you’re talking to a visitor and you’re like, I don’t know anything we have in common, you know, have you ever been talking to somebody and just like you can’t, you’re trying to grasp or something, but just trying to understand — ask questions to just see if you can understand where they’re living. You know, what does their day look like? What kind of things do they do? What kind of difficulties do they have? What personalities are in their home? Or just, and even just being curious in a way, but just caring and figuring out, okay, like what are they going through, and that empathy with them? Then that can really build a relationship rather than you spouting off the 10 things you did that day or all the, you’re accomplishments in life when they’re like you don’t even understand where I’m living and I think one thing that’s helped me with that is going to people’s homes to actually see where they are living 

Mrs. Shaw: right 

Janna: because that can even help I know, some different visits I’ve done where I saw in action the angry parents, you, know and then when they mentioned that in Sunday school or something and you’re like, oh, okay, Well, I understand that because I was there right and just showing you care, but you can really build a relationship by just trying to empathize with where the person’s really at. 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, we’ve developed a godless society, you know, and so, consequently people are dealing, living with a lot of anger, and they don’t know who to go to have for help, you know, and so our kids are young people; are just really dealing with a lot of things that when I was growing up I never had that, you know? But there’s so much insecurity in our world that they don’t realize God can give them that security that they really need. 

Janna: And it’s sad, but it’s also like an encouragement that it’s an opportunity. Because they have such that deep hole in their heart and that need that Christ can fill. 

Anna Faith: And you had mentioned about like going to their homes. One thing too, that’s been helpful, even in outreach, especially with different girls that I’ve reached out to. It’s really, really helpful to have them in your home too. So they can see what a Christian home is or just see the love that you can have in a home. Because some of them don’t even, they’ve never experienced that before. And even, my brother had a disciple he was working with who’s, he’s older, like 40 or 50. You know, and he, we had him over for a birthday party. And at the end of the time he just started crying. He’s like, “I’ve never been to a birthday party this special before.” He said, “all I know of birthday parties is beer and just selfishness.” He’s like, “it’s just so special. I realize a true birthday party is a family just loving each other and just sharing small gifts and having ice cream.” He just kept saying over and over again, and all of us are like, “oh,” you think about it. But just sharing what God has given to us with others also means the world. And that home center too is, I think, obviously going to their home is huge. and then even just opening your home up for other people. 

Janna: There’s a good combination of family and ministry. 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, right, right. Well, we have choices, everybody, and we can choose to decide, I am going to be a friend to others. And if we love Jesus, that’s what he wants us to do. He wants us to reach out to others. 

Janna: Now, as we conclude, are there any more just practical steps you’d encourage the listeners to take this month just as they reach out to those around them? 

Mrs. Shaw: Well, I’m going to read a quote that I found. It says, “I shall pass this way but once. Any good therefore that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer nor neglect for I shall not pass this way again. The open doors that are in front of you today to witness, to encourage, to comfort, to teach may never come again. We must be diligent not to miss these.” So, you need to be praying and asking God to show you someone you can reach out to. No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted. 

Anna Faith: That’s really good. And even just thinking that God has placed every person where He has them to be. And I was thinking of the song, :Brighten the Corner Where You Are.” And just of every each one of us listening and I know God’s worked in my heart even just hearing this. Just where I am, God has placed me with relationships around me. And it’s my responsibility to nurture those and be a good steward of what God has placed me in with these relationships. I think sometimes you think of relationships more as like a fun thing, you know, and obviously they are fun, but just realizing that God has actually given us the responsibility of relationships, connections, and especially, thinking of the gospel and how He’s put us where we are to reach those around us. I thought it was neat too how you just mentioned you reached out to that lady and you just poured your life into her, that neighbor lady you were talking about, and here she is now, you know, encouraging you and you’re very close and just how God has blessed that whole relationship and just and even just thinking that it’s not a chore to build relationships, it’s you’re going to get fruit back from it, and it’s actually an exciting thing as a believer to just share your life with others, and also just thinking that… you were talking about also the testimony you had at another, I don’t know, maybe it was like your second place that you were at, but the family across the street — just kept seeing that and then you were able to build a connection just by your testimony, not even really doing that much. 

Mrs. Shaw: Right, not even talking! 

Anna Faith: But just how God used your testimony to build a relationship and connection in the gospel and just… 

Janna: What’s that phrase… “your walk talks louder than your talk talks” or something like that. 

Anna Faith: I just encourage all of you listeners; we talked about a lot of different things but I’m sure God’s working in your heart about one specific area in relationships that you have developed or need to develop, and especially those relationships those outreach relationships just for the purpose of giving the gospel to those around you obviously that’s what God has created us for as Christians — to be a light to the world around us — and there’s so many people craving that love that so many people around you. We were talking beforehand just about tracts, handing out tracts, and I was even just thinking, just sitting here, like, well you can’t build a relationship if you don’t start it. And so just looking for even handing out tracts, where would God have me start relationships, gospel relationships with people? Um, and you had even mentioned how you go, you went through the same, um, 

Janna: Check out line 

Anna Faith: Check out line, and how God used that to develop a relationship, and then you can hand a track or a word of witness and God can use that to develop that relationship and give you the platform to share the gospel, and just be that light to those around you. So I just encourage you, ask God to show you specifically where you need to work on building relationships with those around you and as you do that you’re going to just be so excited to see how He’s going to use you. So I’d encourage you this month just remember faith doesn’t just talk, faith walks.