Ryan Swanson: Hello and welcome back to the Satisfied Podcast here in the Thee Generation Network. I’m happy you’ve chosen to join us again as we continue this series on same-sex attraction that we have entitled Twisted Passions. I want to start out by saying I really appreciate several of you that reached out by email to say that you were encouraged by the start of this series and that this is being addressed.

Some of you, it was because this is an issue you’ve dealt with or are dealing with personally, and others, it was just because you’ve tried to help other people and want to be more informed and established on the issue of homosexuality if we’re going to help other people around us. And for either of those reasons, I really respect those that have reached out and I should say encouraged by those that have reached out.

And it’s affirmed that this is the right direction that we’re supposed to take for this podcast series, although it is not the easiest and perhaps the hardest series that we have done, from my standpoint anyway, of studying this through and wanting to be true to and respectful to the topic. and different various viewpoints on the issue.

It is a topic that it seems like everybody has an opinion on, which can be helpful because it’s no difficult to find information or someone’s opinion on it. However, it can be difficult because it’s just kind of understood if you’re going to deal with this aspect of same-sex attraction that you’re not going to be friends with everyone. That’s just how it is.

It’s a bit of a polarizing topic. That certainly is not my goal to polarize at all, but I would hope we can do the opposite. But what I’d like to do is just lay out here from Scripture some more truth as we take another bite-sized chunk off this.

Let’s just take another step into this and see if we can stay on the same page. That would be wonderful. But I will at least be giving you what I see in Scripture on this issue.

But again, I would encourage you to do your own study, research, and seek the Lord yourself on this and where He would have you land. If there’s any episode that could be easy in a discussion on same-sex attraction, it would have been the last one, which was really just addressing whether or not it’s wrong.

And especially in the audience that I’m speaking to, then I know that that’s probably the least controversial of all the subtopics that we’ll be dealing with here through this series. So we addressed that in our last podcast on that first episode of the series, and I think it established a good foundation to where we’re ready to move on to the second aspect of this, which I have broken this series up into really answering questions.

At least that’s how we’re doing it so far. And as I said in the last episode, as I study this through at any point, we could change the format or perhaps elongate this series much longer than what I intended. And that may be inevitable, but that’s fine as we work this through.

But the question to answer today is simply this, is homosexuality worse than other sins? Now, since we’ve talked last, I’ve had opportunity to throw that question past several different believers that had thoughts and opinions on this topic and that were well-studied biblically. And I was surprised by how quickly people were to saying that, yes, this is significantly even worse than other sins.

And before I dive a bit more deep into that, let me break this up into three different points, because I think that that question, and it’s intentionally subjective, but is something worse? There’s really three different aspects to how this could be worse than other sins.

So first of all is what you probably thought of, and that is the degree of wickedness, we could say, even to the point of can someone be saved if they have struggled with this sin? Now, that’s a minority position that would question that, but we’ll deal with that. So, the degree of wickedness.

Secondly, would be the path of deliverance. So, is this sin worse in that it’s a completely different path of deliverance, or is there even a path of deliverance? So, is it worse in that way?

And then thirdly, is it worse in its depth of impact on one’s life? And this last one, I say specifically for those that are maybe struggling with this, and it would be difficult for you to hear any kind of comparison saying it’s really not that difficult or not that different from any other sin in this way or that. And you’re probably thinking, what do you mean?

Like this is affecting every area of my life. And that’s that aspect of depth of impact is it is it goes very, very deep down to the very identity. If someone allows it to go that deep, it can be down to the very identity of who you are.

And so deliverance on this level affects so many different aspects of someone’s life that is struggling in this area. So in the three different areas of is this sin worse, we’ve got to address, and we’ll probably only really hit that first one today. But again, those three areas are degree of wickedness, path of deliverance, and depth of impact on one’s life.

And we could say it this way, can you be saved? How can you be saved? And how much of you can be saved or delivered?

And when I use that word saved, I’m really referring to both the soteriological point of salvation as well as sanctification. So can someone become a Christian, and then can someone become a revived and Christ-honoring and Spirit-filled Christian? Well, like I said, let’s focus specifically in this podcast on that first area of the degree of wickedness.

I think where our minds go to first would be the term abomination found in Leviticus 18.22, or at least one of the cases, one of the instances that’s found. And that’s where it says, thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination. We discussed that in the last podcast.

It’s again found in Leviticus 20 as well. So if it’s used, that word abomination is used specifically in this passage towards what is clearly a description of homosexuality, then it would seem then that at this point God is separating that from other sins and putting his finger on this and saying this is worse, it’s an abomination. And there could be several reasons for that.

It goes completely against God’s created order. It is marring God’s own image, since we’re created in His image. And it really does something different than other, even moral sins.

And let me explain this. First of all, to say, I really wanted to be able to come to this podcast and say that there is no difference in how God views homosexuality and any other sin. There’s really no difference between that sin and all the others.

That would have been an easy statement to make, and honestly a very popular statement to make in the discussion of same-sex attraction today. It’s the kind of thing is, how is my sin different than your sin kind of thing. So I was almost at that position until I realized that there actually is a difference here.

And I will clarify it, because we’re actually going to land in a bit of a different spot than you’d probably expect by the end of this podcast, but it is important to point out the difference here. So if someone is struggling with a heterosexual sin, whether it’s pornography or immorality, adultery between a man and a woman, then that is a corruption of a God-given desire. Your sexuality is God-given.

It’s a corruption of a God-given desire. But someone who is struggling with a homosexual sin, pornography, immorality, adultery with the same gender, that is a perversion of a God-given desire. And in essence, what it’s become is a completely separate sexual desire that is not from God at all.

So if anything, it’s twisted, and that’s where we’ve titled this series Twisted Passions, but heterosexuality is God-given. Homosexuality is not. We’ve already established it’s evil.

God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. God does not create that desire. Now, we’ll deal more with that in the next episode.

Next month, we’re going to spend some time on, was I born this way? The key dividing question in a discussion of homosexuality. We will hit that in the following podcast, but I’m a spoiler alert now.

God did not create you that way. That much we can agree on at this point. God did not create that desire.

That’s not of Him. So we are not dealing with a corruption, something good that God gave us that now we are using for evil, and that would be a heterosexual sin. However, we’re dealing with a perversion.

This is taking sexuality that God gave and turning it and twisting it and making it something absolutely, completely different to the point where it is irrecognizable as any kind of gift or passion from God at all. And unlike heterosexuality, which in the proper place is a beautiful thing that actually brings glory to God, homosexuality goes against the very nature of God and his created order.

And according to Romans 1, actually places the creation over the creator and goes hand in hand with a lack of worship of God. So homosexuality is anti-God. It is not from him at all.

And so in the Old Testament, there was a very clear consequence. If a man lies, this is Leviticus 2013, if a man lies with a male as with woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death.

Now, this was not the only sin in the Old Testament that carried a capital punishment of death, but it certainly is significant enough that it’s separated out and given a specific reference in this verse to the penalty of death.

But here’s where we take a bit of a turn that you might not expect, and this came a bit from these discussions I had with Christians who were giving me these verses on the issue, saying it’s clear that this is different, that God is against this, it’s an abomination, it’s against God’s created order, you know, this is horrible, this is terrible, and all this.

And in my mind, I’m thinking, but what does it really mean if one sin is worse than the other? In other words, is that consequential? If this is given in Leviticus as an abomination to God, then in the Old Testament, it carried a different consequence.

But in the New Testament, can you find any difference in how God treats one sin over the other? Instead, what we find in the New Testament is lists of sins. It seems like it happens over and over.

In Romans chapter 1, verse 29, I won’t read the whole thing, but it reads, being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whispers. It keeps going on and on and on. All these different sins being put into one category.

Again, in 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11, Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetousness, drunkards, revilers, nor excortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God, and such were some of you. But ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

They’re put all in the same category, the adulterers, those sinning homosexually, in that verse are put in the same category with the covetous. And another one of these lists is Revelation 21.8, but the fearful, unbelieving, abominable murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Now, why is it that it seems like in the New Testament we have this emphasis of sin as a whole? There’s no emphasis on the degree of the sin or the hierarchy of a certain sin. Why?

Because it’s inconsequential. Paul says that he was the chiefest of sinners. But do you hear him going on to say, well, because of that, I still have to do this on a daily basis for penance, and I’ve got to live this, and it affects so much in this way, and I really hope that in light of all I’ve done that I do enough good to…

No, you see, Any kind of conversation on the wickedness of our sin and the depravity of mankind in the New Testament era must focus on the gospel. The sin is not the point. My sin is under the blood just as your sin is under the blood, just as homosexuality is covered under the blood.

And that’s why I love the list we read in 1 Corinthians that specifically names homosexuality in so many words. And then it goes on to say, and such were some of you, but ye are washed. Do you realize that the same blood that washes away your covetousness washes away someone’s homosexuality?

The same blood. The same blood that is sufficient for a thief or for a drunkard mentioned in this passage is sufficient for a lesbian. The same blood.

It is the clear theme of the New Testament that I as a sinner am no better than any other sinner. The degree of my sin matters only to the degree that it’s been covered under the blood, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So is that an explanation for why homosexuality is called an abomination in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament is put in a list with many other of the sins that are much more common, I don’t know.

I don’t know how God views the sin any differently in our church age and New Testament area, but what I can tell you is I can’t find anywhere in Scripture where it tells me or tells the church to treat homosexuals any different than anyone else, where it says their deliverance is going to look very different than anyone else, where it says that the depth of their salvation and sanctification is going to be any different than anyone else, and they hold the same promises.

Someone struggling with a homosexual stronghold in their life has access to all the same promises that I have as a believer, because the gospel is just as much to them as it is to me. Now, I don’t know what this is going to do, this discussion and this point is going to do for someone who is struggling with same-sex attraction, because this episode isn’t really to you.

This is to those of us that are trying to wrap our minds around this issue so that we can help those around us. This is to pastors who are looking for the right way to address homosexuality from the pulpit, which actually brings up a good point. I think we have only been willing to address homosexuality from the pulpit.

Our entire point of preaching on the topic of homosexuality has been to defend a doctrinal statement and to separate ourselves from the world. And so what do you think that does to those struggling with homosexuality in your church? You’re putting a barrier there.

You’re homosexuality, and everything we’ve discussed on how this is against God’s nature, and do that and point that out. I’m not saying we need more tolerance. That is not the answer.

But somehow, in that, we have only been willing to address and preach at this and against this from the pulpit instead of being willing to take the extra step of looking to care for and meet the needs and address this issue in the pew. Again, I’m not saying that we need more tolerance, but we do need more diligence.

I don’t think we’ve put in the time to try to understand what we’re dealing with and what those of our church members are dealing with, because a percentage of every one of our churches, yes, even conservative, Baptist, the fundamental, I don’t care. A percentage of each one of them, I’m more and more convinced, is struggling in this area.

And if we’re going to help and to pastor and lead and mentor and teach, we’ve got to be willing to put in the diligence to understand just what these people are facing so that we can help them and accurately point them to Christ for their deliverance. And if you’re someone listening that you yourself struggle with same-sex attraction, you do need to understand the depth of this wickedness and the defense towards God that this carries.

You need to recognize the danger of this fire that you’re playing with. However, if you are feeling an added level of weight on your shoulders because of that, if you are feeling a level of discouragement and despair because of the degree of wickedness of your sin, then you do not understand the gospel because the degree of Christ’s atonement is more than sufficient to cover the degree of your sin.

And part of the good news for you is that you can be helped and rescued with the same gospel being preached in your church to every other believer. Now, there’s going to be specific steps that you need to take that God leads you to, there might be certain precautions that you need to put in place. There might be lifestyle safeguards and changes that need to happen, and God’s going to make that very clear.

But again, that’s no different than any other sin. No matter what sin someone’s struggling with, there’s going to be areas of weakness that need to be addressed in unique ways and steps that not everyone else needs to do, but that’s what God’s going to lead you to do.

And a counselor and pastor who’s helping you may decide that it wouldn’t be wise to have you in certain circumstances and situations, and that’s totally acceptable because that’s the case for any sin. Someone who tends to steal, and that is their besetting sin, should maybe not be put in charge of counting the offering.

Or in a discussion with my wife on this, she made the point, a lady who struggles with gossiping maybe shouldn’t be put in charge of the church bulletin. So don’t be afraid of action steps that are specifically given to you or that God lays out for you in light of this area of the homosexual attraction. That’s not something we need to ignore and pretend it doesn’t exist, and that’s where the victory is going to come.

No, this is going to be a journey, and God’s going to lay out practical steps for you. Don’t be afraid of those things. Our point today is you have just as much a reason for hope as I do.

Though your journey of deliverance may look different, the degree of the sin is inconsequential. Though you should not be careless and going forward ignorant of your weaknesses, God has a plan for your deliverance just as much as he has a plan for mine or anyone else’s.

And I’m confident as you right now in this moment, as you seek him for what steps he has for you over the coming days, he’s going to lay that out so clear that you know it’s from him. And he’s going to give you the grace to make decisions to be less gratified and more satisfied with Jesus Christ. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Degeneration Podcast.

If you’ve been blessed or helped in any way by this episode or any other episodes, Please consider sharing what God has done in your life. Your testimony could be exactly what someone else needs to take their own step out of the boat.