Stephen Zempel: Good. So I need your feedback. You're all ladies.

You can give me the woman's perspective on this issue. I had a conversation with my wife last night, and I just need to know what you think about it. Last night we were together for a quick moment driving between one place and another, and I asked my wife, I said, you've told me that you want to spend more time talking together with me.

She said, sure. I said, well, I'm very busy, and I have a lot of other things to do. So I asked my wife, tell me exactly how many minutes I have to spend with you every day in order to make you happy.

So, how am I doing, girls? Does that sound like a good question for a husband to ask? No, you don't think so?

Well, I was kind of expecting a certain response. Unfortunately, my wife and I enjoy a pretty warm and loving relationship. And my wife said, oh, don't worry about it.

I understand you have been busy. We'll just look at the schedule. We'll figure something out.

Forget about it. So I had to think for a second. I said, okay, I'll try again.

I said, our anniversary is coming up next month, and I suppose you'll want me to buy you something for our anniversary. So I said, tell me, exactly how much do I have to spend on you in order to make you happy? How's that?

Better question? Am I improving? No?

How do you think our relationship is if I'm asking questions like that? Good relationship? bad?

Scale of 1 to 10, 1 being 4? Okay, well, unfortunately, once again, my wife says to me, oh, don't worry about it. You don't have to buy me anything.

We have other expenses. Don't even think about it. So I'm thinking, yeah, this is not working.

I'll try again. I said, look, this ring I'm wearing right here, this wedding ring, I said, it's nice and everything, but, you know, sometimes I don't really want to wear it. So tell me, how often do I have to wear this ring, my wife finally, she says, what are you talking about?

She said, why would you not want to wear the ring? Now that's a good question. And ladies, doesn't that pretty much sum it up?

Why would you not want to wear the ring? What would motivate you to not want to wear this wedding ring? And why would we not want to wear clothing that's as obviously Christ-like as possible?

What exactly would motivate that? We're talking about clothing here. We're talking about modesty and distinction, issues like that.

The Bible has a lot to say about it, but the first question we have to ask is, where's our heart? Frankly, if our heart's in the right place, we don't need dozens of Scripture verses saying, you must, you must, you must. It's really a part of our relationship with God.

So on page one, at the top of the page, you can see God himself invented human clothing. He was the first one to ever make clothing. And obviously, he has opinions about what it should be and what it should not be.

The question is, do I share his opinions? Do I want what he wants? This is part of our relationship with God.

And I'm just emphasizing here, point number one, we have, or we ought to have, a love relationship with God. Putting his desires first rather than my own. You can see these verses here.

The Bible says we ought to try to please Him in everything that we do. Colossians 1, verse 10, that you might walk worthy of the Lord. You know, ladies, when you clothe yourself, when you select your clothing in the morning, you're doing that primarily for Him, for God, for the Lord.

Not primarily for your husband, certainly not for that guy that you hope will notice you, or those other girls that you hope that they'll think that your outfit is cute. We're dressing primarily for Him in a way that's worthy of Him. Unto all pleasing, it says, and that basically means pleasing Him in everything.

So when God looks at our clothes, is He happy? That's the question. Not this guy, that gal.

Is He happy with it? Is He pleased with it? Letter B, excellence for Him.

Paul writes that I want you Christian people to approve things that are excellent. I'm afraid too often as Christian people, what we're doing is trying to say, well, what's wrong with it? And how close can I get to my own preference and still be okay with God?

Paul says, no, you need to be excellent in your testimony, your lifestyle choices. You need to do as much as you can possibly do to get closer to God and to direct others to Him. Clothing included.

So where's our heart? Is that our heart or are we still stuck in this position? Well, prove to me from Scripture.

You know, ladies, there should not have to be a Scripture that says, Thou shalt not purchase that skirt. There shouldn't have to be one. The truth is there are dozens and dozens of Bible verses about clothing and modesty and distinction and things of this nature from the very beginning to the very end.

It's all over the place. But the real question is, where's my heart? Am I trying to get closer and closer to God's desires?

Or not? Am I trying to preserve my own comfort, my own convenience, my own preferences? Letter C, a heart for Him.

Again, in Ephesians 6.6, it says we should do the will of God. The word will basically means what God wants.

But then it says from the heart, which implies that it's possible for young ladies to do what God wants, not from the heart. If you're doing what God wants, but it's not from the heart, what does that look like? Maybe a little huffing and puffing, a little rolling of the eyes, a little, well, if I have to, and I can't wait until I get out of this school.

That's not from the heart. That's not a love relationship. Romans 6, a very similar expression.

You have obeyed doctrine. Well, good for you, but it says you have obeyed from the heart. You really wanted to do it.

You know, some of the most beautiful ladies are those who have a heart that is just so warm and wanting to do what God wants. And when they make a sacrifice, they don't even think of it as a sacrifice. And they're just so happy.

Just want to do what God wants. Finally, if that's our heart position, then we will be open to advice from Him. 2 Peter 1 points out we do have everything we need.

if we want to make choices of life, lifestyle choices that are actually godly, we've got all the advice we need. We just need to be open to it. If we're stuck in a position where we're saying, okay, tell me what I have to wear in order to please God and make Him happy, we're truly in a position of legalism.

Just give me the standards, give me the rules. I don't necessarily want to do it, but I will, and then I'll know that I'm right with God. The Bible talks a lot about the problem of legalism.

Maybe some of you ladies who have careful dress standards, maybe somebody's talked to you and said you're legalistic because you have clothing standards. You know, the Bible talks about that as a problem, the problem of legalism. But do you know that the Bible's solution for legalism is never to drop the standards?

Every time, Old Testament and New Testament, the Bible talks to us about legalism, it says you need a higher standard.

every time that Jesus speaks to a legalistic person in his ministry every time a prophet talks about legalistic Israelites in the Old Testament they say the problem with your legalism is your standard's not high enough if you're motivated by love your standard will be much higher imagine this my wife says to me okay okay ten minutes per day I want ten minutes per day if I truly love her do you think I'll do more or less than the standard that she gives? More, certainly.

And frankly, I won't even have to focus on it or even think about it. Because I'm motivated by love, it's going to take me to a higher standard. And what my wife wants out of me, she doesn't want me to spend a certain amount of time with her.

She wants me to want to spend time with her. Right? Why do you think it would be different with God?

Do you think God wants you to just measure up and do all the stuff that He says thou shalt? Is that what God wants from you? God wants you to want to be close to Him, as close as you possibly can be.

I know several ladies whom I won't name who would be able to give a testimony and say, in the past I wore clothing that pleased myself. I had my own preferences. I had some things that I wanted to communicate through my clothing and things like that.

But when God began to work in my heart and I began to grow, the clothing changed without ever having to be told Scripture verses about clothing. I just wanted to do right, and I wanted to walk with God, and my clothing began to change. And it's really true.

When our hearts change, our choices change. When our wants change, our wardrobe will change. To conclude this first page, before we go on to page two, I'll tell you a quick story.

Some years ago when I first moved here to Falls Baptist Church, and I was a young man trying to help out in the church ministries. There was a couple that belonged to the church that invited me for a meal to their house. And as we were eating lunch, they said, you know, you shouldn't wear jeans, denim jeans.

They said, you shouldn't wear jeans. They said, we don't do that around here. Well, they had gotten the idea that it was a kind of a church standard that you shouldn't wear jeans.

They were mistaken, but that's what they said to me. You shouldn't wear jeans. They said, we've never seen the pastor wear jeans, so we just don't wear jeans.

Well, I had a couple pairs of jeans. I wore my jeans on appropriate occasions. I didn't wear jeans to church services, but I did.

They said that. And let me ask you girls, if you had been in a position similar to that, where somebody sat you down and said, you know what you're wearing? You really shouldn't wear that.

How would you react? How would you respond? Well, by God's grace, I was here because I wanted to be here, and I didn't even think twice.

I said, okay, well, if we don't wear jeans at this church, I won't wear jeans. And I didn't. And do you know I was never frustrated about it?

I never lay awake at night thinking, I wish I could wear my jeans, if only. I didn't. I just didn't wear my jeans anymore.

Well, a couple months later, then it came to light, and I learned more. Well, this family had their own standard, and they had kind of come to their own conclusions. And there truly was not a church standard about you shouldn't wear jeans or anything like that.

And I don't know. They had kind of been sharing their own perspective. And I really don't think they should have done that.

I don't think it was a wise conversation to have. But the fact is, I had that conversation, and I responded correctly by God's grace. So ladies, how about you?

How about you? You get upset when somebody talks to you about these things? Because clothing is so much a part of us, just who we are and how we relate to other people, how we express ourselves.

That's all fine. That's as it should be. That's what clothing's for.

It should communicate. But we get upset. If anybody wants to talk to us about a hemline or a low collar or anything like that, we get upset.

Well, you know, who are you to say? And I, you know, the Bible doesn't, there's no verse in the Bible that says, we're very defensive. But where's our heart?

You see, that's just an indication. Where's my heart? Is my heart really in this?

I want to do as much as I can. Get as close to God as I can. Be the best testimony I can.

To the point where it doesn't even bother me if somebody gives some input, right? Okay. Page two.

If our heart's in the right place, then all these scripture verses begin to make sense. If our heart's not in the right place, I could give you hundreds of scripture verses and it won't help you at all. I would encourage you, if you ever find yourself talking to a girl or to a lady about, issues of clothing and dress, and you find they're really resistant and asking questions like, well, what's wrong with it?

And there's no verse that says the hemline should be, and things like that. And well, I know somebody else who, if you're talking and counseling with somebody who's in that position, I would suggest don't talk about standards or lifestyle choices at all. Go right for the heart.

Just say, forget about that. Let's talk about your heart. Where's your heart at?

Are you open to do just whatever God wants you to do? Can you honestly say anything that God wants, even if it causes discomfort or inconvenience? I'll be happy to do it.

If you can say yes, then these things aren't even going to be an issue. But the Bible does address this. Our clothing is not only part of our relationship with God, it's part of our relationship with other people, how we relate and how we communicate to other people.

Point number two, that should be a love relationship. That means putting their needs ahead of my own in these regards, these principles here. Letter A, separation.

Romans chapter 12, do not be conformed to this world. Don't be shaped by this world and modeled after the pattern of this world. Ladies, do you have any article of clothing that you enjoy wearing that is obviously identifiable as part of this world system?

Be transformed. Be different. You're a new creature.

You should dress like a different creature. My wife teaches at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana every summer. A few years back, one of her students invited her over for a dinner meal, and as they were eating dinner, this student asked my wife, why do you wear the clothes that you wear?

She said, I know that clothing is designed to communicate, and I know what clothing communicates on average girls around here. She said, why do you wear what you wear? And of course my wife shared the gospel with her.

Letter B, distinction. We're meant to be separate from the world system. And letter B, distinct, not only from what the world is doing, but, well, distinction in genders.

Deuteronomy 22, verse 5, everybody's favorite verse, right? The woman should not wear that which pertaineth unto a man. A man should not put on a woman's garment.

Well, a lot of Bible scholars spend a lot of time trying to decide, what does that really mean? And they write pamphlets, and they write papers, and they write books. What does that really mean?

What pertains unto a man and a woman's garment? It's really funny to me that nobody spends any time doing that with Deuteronomy 22, verse 4, or Deuteronomy 22, verse 6, but we spend a lot of time trying to figure out what does that actually mean? Because it hits us where we live.

And we might have to actually change some things in our lives if it actually means what it says. Well, ladies, can I just say this? Deuteronomy 22, 5, no matter what the woman's garment is and the man's garment is and exactly what the Hebrew terms express, it's clearly about clothing.

It's clearly about garments. Number two, it's clearly about distinction between genders. Clearly.

And number three, it is obviously something that God has extremely strong opinions about. All that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. So if God wants very clear distinction between genders in clothing, shouldn't we get as close to that, that heart, that desire, that passion, that opinion of God as we possibly can?

Not just try to edge a little bit. Well, you know, I mean. Number, oh, I've got to tell this story.

I wrote this down in my notes. Huh. Can't skip this story.

This morning my dad told me this story. He said he and my mom were eating at a restaurant, and my mom said, Oh, look at that. And they looked outside the window, and there was a girl dressed in a really long and flowing dress, beautiful feminine dress.

And up at the top of her head, her scalp was shaved except for a tall mohawk sticking straight out of the top of her head. So she had this lovely garment, and then this mohawk. Strange.

So, of course, they continued to watch as she went to her car and turned around to get into her car, and they observed, lo and behold, it wasn't a girl. It was a guy. Big bushy beard, mohawk, lovely dress.

And, of course, he was making a statement, trying to be really subversive and odd. You know, we could say a lot of things about that situation. We could make a lot of comments, but think about this.

That guy who wanted to make a subversive statement about his masculinity mixed with the femininity When he wanted to select an obviously feminine garment, what did he choose? Think about this. If he had chosen to wear what girls typically wear, the whole effect would have been ruined.

It wouldn't have worked. Well, look at me. I'm so weird wearing my shorts and T-shirt.

Right? Imagine a girl, not yourself, any girl, saved, unsaved, I don't know. Imagine a girl who wakes up in the morning and says, Today I would like to wear something obviously feminine.

What would that girl wear? Imagine a girl who says, Today I don't want to look feminine. What would that girl wear?

What God wants is distinction. Letter C, modesty. Modesty.

Paul writes to Timothy, and what he's writing about is church and how church services should work. and Paul says in church services, here's what ought to happen. Men should pray and they should lift up holy hands.

That's what should happen at church. That's part of worship in like manner also. Do you see that in the middle of the verse?

Paul's making a clear connection to what the men are doing as part of worship and he says that women adorn themselves in modest apparel with shamefacedness and sobriety. When you go to church, you expect to hear prayer and you expect when people lead in prayer that it's going to lead everybody else into worship. Paul says that's as it should be, and then he says women and what they wear is part of worship.

It's not just part of worship for that woman. It's part of worship for everybody. Just as men lead people into worship with their prayer, women should do the same thing.

Modesty, shamefacedness, sobriety. These terms are all talking about how we present our physical body to other people in that medium of clothing. How that relates to other people.

What comes across. modesty shamefacedness sobriety well that that word sobriety do you take it seriously when you get dressed for church do you think seriously about it this is going to be part of the worship here or do you think oh i hope so and so my my girlfriend really likes this new thing that i got is that what's going across your mind that brings us to letter d attention attention clothing is communication. Clothing is meant to draw attention.

The question is, what is it drawing attention to, and what is it communicating? Peter writes this, talking about godly women, and he says they're adorning. What's on their outsides should not be outward adorning, and then he goes on and he describes how women can fix themselves up.

He says, really, it should be the hidden man of the heart. He says, the meek and quiet spirit. He says, in the sight of God, that is a great price.

So maybe in the sight of man, your new outfit or the way you've done your hair, maybe that's really attractive, but in the sight of God. What's really important is your spirit and your attitude. Sometimes we dress to impress others rather than God.

If you have been around church any length of time, I'm sure you've heard some kind of advice about women should be careful what they wear and how they clothe themselves for the sake of men. Because men are attracted to women, so you want to be careful. You don't want to draw inappropriate attention.

It's my personal opinion that the majority of women, when they dress for attention, they dress for other women. They want to impress other women. Because the truth is, frankly, men don't even notice clothes.

Did you know that? Men don't even notice clothes. If you're all proud of your handbag that matches your shoes, it would be a rare man who would even know that you were even carrying a handbag.

no but we want our girlfriends to notice and we want to impress in that way the point is whether you're dressing to attract the attention of some guy or just approval from some ladies is that really the motivation is that the correct motivation drawing attention to ourselves or drawing attention to god when people look at us do they say well that obviously that's a christian woman letter e example 1 Corinthians 11, verse 1, Paul says, That word followers is literally imitators.

He's urging Christian people, you must imitate me. In the context of what's happening in this passage, Paul is saying here, I have given up my rights, my comforts, my convenience, in order to serve Christ and in order to be a good testimony to others. And then he says, you should imitate me.

This is so important for girls, for ladies. You need to be, in your lifestyle choices, you need to be imitatable. Other people should be able to look at you, other ladies in particular, and imitate you.

You should have confidence that if every other lady in the church dressed just like you do, they would all be dressing in a Christlike manner. You should know that. That might involve some, you know, sacrifice.

Giving up of your rights and a little less convenience, a little less comfort. changing preferences, things like that. But the truth is, these lifestyle choices we're talking about, choices of clothing, are more often caught than they are taught.

It's really rare that a woman changes her clothing style just because somebody says, here's a verse of Scripture, you should read this. Usually it's caught. There are other people around us that we admire and that we respect.

And we make choices because we want to do the right thing. My wife years ago was discipling a girl, And I had the girl over to her house, and my wife was packing for a trip. And the girl was just there watching as my wife packed her clothes for this trip, and she said, you wear those kind of clothes to go on a trip like this?

She was traveling to Mexico, I believe. My wife said, yeah, that's what I wear. You know, it's appropriate, it's modest.

And because of that, that girl kind of woke up, and she said, oh. And she changed her clothing style based on the example. You need to be somebody who can be imitated.

Number F, letter F, testimony. 1 Corinthians 6, you are bought with a price. Girls, you don't belong to yourself.

Your body, your clothing, the way you express yourself, your speech, your demeanor, everything about your presentation of yourself should be about God. Glorify God. The word glorify basically means draw attention to Him.

When people see you, they should obviously know that there's a God and He's done something in your life. A couple years ago, I invited a neighbor of ours to attend church here, and he came to the service. And during the preaching, Pastor coincidentally mentioned something about rap music in worship services.

He talked about some church that was using rap music as part of the worship and said that's not appropriate. Well, as I was driving my neighbor back home, I asked him, how did you enjoy the service? He said, oh, it was good, it was good, except for that thing he said about the rap music.

He said, I don't agree with that. He said, at my church, I belong to the dance team, and we use rap music in church. And he said, it's just a cultural thing.

He said, at your church, I mean, it's a different culture. People there, they appreciate traditional hymns. At my church, different culture.

We use the rap music, and then when people come in, before they even hear the Christian text and lyrics, they immediately identify with that music because it's what they're used to. Now, this whole time, I'm not saying anything. He just continues his argument, and he says, well, at your church, it's different.

When people come into your church, when they hear that music, they know immediately that it's Christian music before they ever hear the words. And he just stopped and he said, oh, okay. He said, I get what you're saying.

Well, I wasn't saying anything. And then he thought a second longer and he said, I guess that could apply to other areas of lifestyle as well, couldn't it? Like the clothes you wear.

I said yeah it could so what does your clothing say about you what does your clothing say about God and really essentially where's your heart at what is the desire of your heart these issues just really aren't issues if you're just trying to keep moving forward do the right thing get as close to God's heart as you can and be the best testimony you can possibly be there's some other resources listed at the bottom of the page if you want to look those up later