Mark Gillmore: Hello and welcome to our Go Mission podcast. I’m Mark Gilmore. And today I have the privilege of coming to you from Europe and the country of France. Thanks to a good friend of mine, Brother Eric. And I want to today share his story with you, have him testify how God has led in his life to a really unique opportunity, but I think a very valid one. And we see the hand of God in it. So Eric, welcome to our Go Mission podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. It’s because of you that I’ve come through Paris, France a couple of times lately. And I’ve really enjoyed getting to see really a sense of the hand of God at work here in Europe. I feel like for me, I think of Europe as just a really difficult place. I feel like, you know, maybe people are similar to us over on the, you know, state side of things. Yet we feel like there’s a lot of resistance. And I think a lot of us are kind of stuck in a mindset like Europe’s really difficult. I would never want to go there. and I think maybe your testimony today can change that.

Brother Erik: I hope so, yeah. I really feel like God is really wanting to reach the people of France for himself, wanting to bring them into his family. And even as I’ve paused to kind of reflect on the past of the culture, the history of France, it feels like over and over again, God has been trying to win this people to himself. And that repeatedly over and over again, the enemies gotten in and caused that not to work. Even to where, for example, the pastor at the church was talking about how, see this church building right here? There’s a Catholic church building. And the Catholic priest got a hold of the actual real manuscripts and started translating and looking at it saying, Oh, look, this isn’t what we’re teaching. Salvation is actually by faith. And he, from a Catholic church, got saved by faith and started leading other people to the Lord so much so that there’s a street still to this day, the street of the martyrs, where the pastor explained that the street was full of people that trusted Christ as their Savior and whatever came in and killed all these people off. And that kind of thing seems to have happened over and over through the history of France. And it feels like God really wants to win these people. And we’ve even seen people come in, you know, to visit, you know, walking off the street from the church where they’ve come out of a Catholic church background. And they’re searching. And some of them have found Christ and some of them we’ve helped lead to Christ. And it’s amazing to see God working in hearts.

Mark Gillmore: You’ve only been here a relatively short time, yet you’ve got some fruit, the hand of God that you’ve seen. If he’s done that in the past, isn’t he doing that today?

Brother Erik: Exactly. Yeah, you know. That concept that God is already at work in hearts and lives. And that when he shows you what he’s doing, that’s often his invitation for you to join him in his work. And we see all over the place that God’s working in hearts here and people are really searching.

Mark Gillmore: Yes. Let’s go back to some early stages of your story. It was exactly about 30 years ago that you became part of the church that I was a part of. and even my wife and I were leading an adult fellowship. You were part of that. We had some significant times just serving together and ministering to you in some early stages. But even your preparation to come here to France even precedes that. What did God do in your youth to prepare you for this ministry?

Brother Erik: You know, back in high school, you know, we had to take a foreign language and, you know, I prayed about it and felt like, you know, the Lord wanted me to learn French. So I went to learn French. And, you know, first year, it was a typical American French teacher who had a really lousy French accent. And I think I came away with a D. And the French teacher said, you know, maybe French isn’t for you, Eric. And I had a great teacher next. And that teacher actually had friends in France who volunteered to or asked if there were any volunteers who’d like to host a French student, you know, our age and high school age. And I did that three different summers, hosting four different French students, one year or two of them. And the thing that struck me, though, was every time that it came time for them to leave, they only spent three weeks with us, but when it came time for them to leave, they were over the top, you know, red-faced, teary-eyed, bawling, crying. And, you know, my French wasn’t that great. I don’t think their English was that amazing. We didn’t do that amazing things. And my mom, maybe being a little more spiritually in tune there, said, you know, Eric, I wonder if, you know, it’s that they see in a Christian home the love of Christ here, and they’re going back to where they’re not going to see that. And I stayed and I visited with one of those French students in, what is it, 1987. And, you know, for three weeks I spent some time near Nice. And, you know, sometimes when you go to the grocery store in the U.S., you know, you maybe run across somebody and you think, I wonder if they’re a Christian, and you end up talking to them in line or something, and you realize, oh, yeah, yeah, they are. And I felt like here when I was in France, I met zero people that gave me the impression or feeling like maybe there might be a Christian. And, you know, you come back to look at it and you realize that France is like one to maybe two percent on the optimistic side, being pretty generous, actual believers. And, you know, that, you know, when you’ve mentioned what people think about Europe, you know, I think oftentimes people don’t realize that, you know, maybe people feel like I really want to go to a place that’s really dark. that really needs the Lord. And oftentimes people just think about Africa as fitting that. But I don’t think people realize that, you know, it’s like that even in France. It’s very few believers, spiritually very dark. But, you know, and the need is great. But it’s not a third world country. So oftentimes I think like people who feel like I really want to be where there’s a really great need, yet, oh, but I don’t know if I can make it in Africa. And maybe they can’t, but the Lord can help them. But I don’t think they realize that, but that same need is here in not a third world country in France. And this country really needs the Lord too.

Mark Gillmore: I’m hearing some stories of God’s hand in remarkable ways here in this country. Before I leave your youth story behind, just want to make a note that that language learning assignment was something that God used to prepare you for what you’re doing today?

Brother Erik: In fact, I was approached by a missionary where they were trying to bring people to France, right? And I was invited to go to France as a teenager and was accepted to go and told to raise support, but I didn’t know how to do that. They didn’t explain it well. I felt funny about it, and I felt like, couldn’t I just get a job there and support myself? It never happened, though, but I took four more years of French in college. Okay. And then, you know, nothing, hardly ever used it ever. Right. Between then and, you know, now.

Mark Gillmore: You built on that out of high school into college, and God had this in mind all along. So it’s just an encouragement to young people to consider what God might be inviting them into, even in the, you know, academic realm that can become tools for future ministry, and to trust God for that and do your best. Learn something like you put five, six years into French. You had French exchange students come and live with you. You came to France once yourself. And those deeper engagements really formed something and even opened up your heart to what a French person feels like and could feel, just seeing their tears and their goodbyes. Speaking of that, as you’ve shared your story with me, there came a time in your life more recently where tears were not in the eyes of your French friends, but they were in your own eyes as you were thinking about France. Just describe what God did in your heart here in these last several years.

Brother Erik: Well, even in small group Bible studies that we were having, they talked about the verses that talked about that God shows the sun what he’s doing. And, you know, God shows us what he’s doing and invites us to join him. And, you know, I started praying, well, you know, that would be amazing if God would show me something that he’s doing that he’d invite me specifically to join him in. And as I started praying about that, I felt in my heart that God was saying to me already that, well, but Eric, I already invited you and you didn’t, you didn’t respond. And I thought, oh yeah, but that was a long time ago. And, you know, now I’m married, I’ve got kids, I’ve got a job, I’ve got a house, How could that possibly work? And as I started praying about it, yeah, it was like Lamentations, was it 3, 48, 49, I think, where it talks about that my eyes flow like rivers of water unceasingly. And that’s what was happening to me as I would pray seriously about France. And yeah, it would go on for like hours at times that I’d be praying about it. And at first I didn’t tell anybody because I thought, I must be misunderstanding God putting that on my heart. That’s probably just me thinking or something, right? And I kept praying about it. And I’d always cry a lot about it. And I’m like, what is wrong with me? Why do I keep crying so much? Trying to hide that and not show that to anybody because I figured I was just misunderstanding. And as I kept praying and reading the Bible and listening to preaching, I started to realize, you know what, it’s not sadness or regret. It was a heart of compassion that I was feeling. And I was feeling like it was God’s heart of compassion for these people. And that’s still what I feel like. Even went up to the Eiffel Tower and I stopped for a moment and looked over the view and felt overwhelmed by the number of lost souls there. started crying again. You know, even walking down some of the streets at times. I might be walking, you know, by myself or something on the street of Paris and see people all over the place and overwhelmed by the feeling like there are so many lost people here and wanting to win them to himself. You know, God really put, I don’t feel like one particular place of France is on my heart. I feel like the whole country of France is on my heart. And, you know, after we’ve helped for a time where we are right now, I feel like, you know, God wants us to continue helping all over

Mark Gillmore: different parts of France. It’s like God is sharing with you his heart. Yeah. And I know, I think I know you pretty well. You’re not characteristically an emotional type of person. You’re very cerebral. You know, you’re very mental, very rational, very thinking. So for you to reflect on something that is bringing tears to your eyes in that dimension, that is supernatural. That’s the hand of God. That’s God sharing with you his heart. And it kind of, it points at the fact that before God’s asking you to do something in your actions, he’s actually asking you to do something in your heart. He’s calling you to a place of intercession. That’s really what that heart is. It’s joining God’s heart for a nation. And that response of tears and prayer with tears is going to yield more than anything you ever do with your lips or with your feet by joining God’s heart. And that’s a great testimony to us.

Brother Erik: You know, and it’s interesting, too, you know, as we’ve taken public transportation, even as we, you know, stay in between from the morning service to the, and we stay through to the evening service, just staying in the church. you know people will walk in to the church out of the blue you know just off the streets and you know we’ve repeatedly you know even on public transportation we’ll repeatedly see people that actually initiate conversation with us that you know we didn’t actually initiate it often and there’s something spiritual going on in their heart and life and it it is it is amazing I can confidently say that you know God is working in the people’s hearts in France even when you shared with me when I first told you about this years ago. You just shared one podcast with me about some people that were ministering in France, and they mentioned that they also feel that God is doing a work here and calling more people to France. And I’d love it if other people who maybe have a burden for, you know, the lost people in a very dark group of people, you know, spiritually dark people group, if they understood that you don’t have to necessarily go to the third world you could go to France and there are people really searching. As much as they want to say that there’s so many atheists and whatever, these people are searching and they’re thinking people.

Mark Gillmore: They’re thinking people. Now, as you arrived here, as in the full-term, long-term measure, maybe about a year ago or so, I just remember how it was almost on day one or two or three that God gave you a soul. Day one. On day one. The day we arrived. You led a man to Christ. Yeah, that was amazing. That’s just the hand of God. And from that time forward, he’s given you a lane. He’s given you a vision. It really started the way you were ministering back home in your church, in our church back in America. You were engaged and bearing fruit in that venue, and you just shifted venues, and really you’re doing that same disciple-making focus. what you saw God do back home has encouraged you for what he can do here. I know that you have toured a number of Bible-believing groups here in France, shared some of your story. Now God’s connected you, one in particular. And just describe the ministry that God has given you. Now, in that local church, the fruit that you see, the impact you’re making in training other believers, and just what that looks like.

Brother Erik: Well, you know, so we saw demonstrated and were a part of how God, you know, grows the ministry when grows, you know, the people that are the believers and grows the number of people that are being reached. When the whole church really has a heart to understand that, you know, it’s not just the pastor who’s ministering, but it’s the whole body of believers that they all have a part to play in the body. And that discipleship making isn’t just for the pastor to be doing that. It’s the whole church. And so, you know, we lived that out and saw that happening, you know, back in the U.S. And, you know, God gave us a confidence that he can do this, you know, a steady confidence that he can and wants to work this way. It’s just what the Bible says, you know, training faithful people will be able to teach others. But when we visited France, we wanted to see, you know, is this really God leading us? Is this really God wanting us to be here? And so we visited literally a dozen churches all across France from the north to the center to the south. And every time that we saw that there was a Bible study outside of the normal service time, it was always led by the pastor. And we didn’t see any type of concept of small group Bible study, Sunday school type of a discovery Bible study, anything like that going on here in France anywhere. So in other words, it’s just the pastor or pastors who are, you know, making the disciples and people are just coming to church. And, you know, obviously 12 churches and all of the churches in France, I don’t know everything. You know, I can’t say that there isn’t one that exists, but we didn’t we weren’t seeing it anywhere. And, you know, so our, I guess, our burden at the moment, and we’re wanting to follow exactly what the Lord wants. We don’t want to do our own thing. We want to do exactly what he wants us to do. You know, even getting to that point of surrendering like that, you know, is giving us a confidence that, you know, if we’re following what he wants us to do, then it’s good. But so we’ve come to this church and suggested to them small group Discovery Bible Studies and helping them with that. And, you know, it took some time for them to get to trust us, to get to know us, and even to get past the thinking like, well, ooh, coming earlier than the normal service time or staying later? I don’t know if they’ll be willing to do this. And, you know, the kind of common, well, this is different. is this just an American thing? Explaining to them, no, no, no, this is just following what the Bible says and making disciples. And we’ve seen that grow to where they voted to be able to start having Discovery Bible Studies. The word, that phrase doesn’t exactly work the same, but the same concept though. They voted to go ahead and start doing it. And so now we’ve got it happening, Discovery Bible Studies happening before the morning service and then before the evening service. and we’ve seen the numbers of regular attenders growing. You know, France being what it is and the way they’re taught, I feel like these people are very spiritually hungry because they’re taught to be thinkers in school. You know, all through growing up, you know, they’re studying philosophers and whatever else in school and they’re just trained to be thinkers. And so they have all kinds of questions. They’re thinking deeply about what they’re reading in the Bible and they just want to hear some answers and they want to be able to see, I can find these answers in the Bible. Ah, you know, and I can apply this to my life. And just seeing them practically doing that and, you know, there’s, you know, I’ve seen one couple go from, you know, maybe kind of being angry and not very interested in spiritual things to being really super hungry spiritually and to where the wife is saying to the husband, you know, you’re different now. And, you know, constantly hearing people talk about, oh, this Bible study is top. You know, and they’re, even to where they’re saying like, you know, there’s this Bible Institute training that we have, and that’s really good. But then this interactive type of a discovery Bible study we have, you know, this is even deeper because, you know, we get to talk through it and talk about it deeper with each other and share our understanding and share how the Lord’s working in our hearts and then be challenged to apply it. And I really think that what I’ve heard too is like, Where we come from in the U.S., our church in the U.S., I really appreciate how our church would challenge us to apply God’s word. And I feel like that’s not as common at all churches and even here in France. And so making that connection from just learning something to how do I apply this to my life is, I think, a life-changing thing for me.

Mark Gillmore: So going back to even that story you told about that man in Catholicism, a priest began to discover God’s word for himself, and it changed his life. Really, that’s what you’re leading folks to do. Discover the Word of God for themselves in a group setting. And it is just a simple approach, but leads them towards how does this apply to our lives? And then it also equips them to now become a channel of that truth to other people’s lives, where you’re saying that the channel, characteristically, has been just the pastor. He’s the one they listen to. He’s the one who prepares. But now they’re actually all becoming channels of truth. They discover for themselves with one another, and they’re just enjoying it so much. What potential do you see? Now, I think you’ve said how that you’ve got now before service on Sunday’s afternoon, both you and your wife are leading. So that’s about four different groups. Now up to close, you’re probably getting close to 30 people involved in these Bible studies.

Brother Erik: Right, and it can definitely grow to where, you know, I’d love to see it to where they start thinking, we’re going to need a bigger building here or something but you know and god is i i really like i just have to emphasize that how i really think god is working this people group i mean just was it a sunday or two ago there was a a young um college age guy that came in and um you know they understood that he had a catholic background and that he was searching and you know he actually had mentioned that he had been searching and he wasn’t finding much in french such that he started searching in English for things. And he said he was finding more content, even to where I was speaking to him in French. But when he understood I was American, he started to switch over to English and asked if we could speak in English because he felt like he could speak more about spiritual things in English than French. And we went on to talk to where his story was that he came out of a Catholic church. Actually, I don’t know if he’s really exactly describes himself as coming out. He’s on the process of coming out of a Catholic church. It sounded like, as I started through the gospel tract with him that he had trusted Christ. And as we went through it, he explained, yeah, this last October, he trusted Christ. But he didn’t even have the basic fundamental truths really core to where he felt like he could stand on these truths. Like, he needed assurance of salvation still. And he was so searching that he explained that he went to the Catholic priests at different Catholic churches and asked them about salvation. And all he got back was, well, different people interpret these things different ways. And you could tell this wasn’t the right answer. So, you know, gave help with going through the gospel with him, gave him assurance of salvation. But there’s so many people like this, even stuck in Catholicism. Catholicism is so strong in France that if you’re not Catholic, they think you’re a cult. We left a church, you know, when we were visiting those dozen churches, and there were two people walking down the street. And the one was asking the other, what’s this group of people leaving this building here. He’s like, oh, that’s a cult. Not a cult, like a cultish thing, because if it’s not Catholic, it must be a cult, is how the mindset is in France. But he’s drawing people. That’s right. And some of those strongholds are coming down. I love the confidence that you share

Mark Gillmore: on a couple of lines. One, the confidence that what you saw God do through you in your home church back in America is what he can and will do through you here. And I think that’s such a powerful platform for our own spiritual effectiveness confidence in the past now i’m applying it here in this new area but i have confidence that god’s going to do that again and i praise god for giving you that um that experience has become hope confidence right in this region and then another area of the confidence that comes out of you has to do with the confidence just in that god can be trusted as he leads you into this step that you’re not trying to have to force things. You don’t have to force a local French pastor to do things your way. You can just ask God to make you a testimony and see what doors open that way. And the confidence really that’s in God’s hand upon your life and that he can do things and he doesn’t need you, but I’m trusting him that I’m going to be there when he needs me. And you’ve done all of this in your adult years. You’ve had five children, right? And really, three are definitely out of the home. The other two could be out of the home. You know, they’re still with you here. So here you are in the mature years of your life. You had your business, you had your home, you had your job and so forth. And you just uprooted all that to join what God was inviting you into here in France. What would you say to those mid-aged men and women of God who are feeling a tug, that compassion, that invitation? Is it worth doing what you’ve done? How do you do what you’ve done? What would you say to them?

Brother Erik: You know, I think back to one of the messages that Pastor spoke back in the U.S. where he asked, you know, do you really trust God? Or is there some area of your life that you maybe are still holding back? Like, you can have everything in my life except for this one little part. And I didn’t feel like I was holding anything back, but that do I feel confident that I can trust God with my life and that he wants the best for me? And it was, you know, kind of comical or funny to think back about it, to think like, not really comical, but I mean, just to think like, could I possibly have a better plan for my life than God? Could I possibly dream up some better plan that’s going to be more fulfilling and more rewarding and more having eternal value than what God’s plan would be? And when I realized that it wasn’t that I was holding, I couldn’t think of any specific thing in my life that I was holding back, but just the fact that I didn’t feel at peace when he had confronted with that question. And I surrendered that. And I remember even saying, like, if it meant missions, that was years ago, quite a few years ago. But surrendering that and trusting that God would work out, that God’s plan would be the best, I guess, brought us to the step where I could feel confident to say, well, you know, all of the objections that I had to how could we go here, as I prayed about it, God kept removing all of the obstacles. And, you know, just praying to the Lord and asking him, you know, is this what you want? And instead of telling him, like, here’s my plan and here’s what I’m going to do, you know, we were just praying, God, what do you want us to do? Because we want to do what you want us to do because we don’t want to do our own thing. Because I don’t want to go and spend, you know, all the money. And I mean, we sold our house in the U.S. and used those funds to get us over here. And the Lord just worked it out that, you know, he gave me a job where I could, you know, the boss didn’t care, the owner doesn’t care where I live as long as I, you know, get the work done. So all of the obstacles God worked out. And there’s probably other people that maybe have a job that would allow them to be able to work remotely. So I’m in that, you know, that status of we didn’t we didn’t travel around and raise support. We just use the funds that we had from our house to get here. And then we are just using our normal income to support ourselves.

Mark Gillmore: I suppose in some ways, even COVID contributed to this because that idea of remote, you know, remote work is now I mean, you’re you’re the ultimate remote worker working in the IT industry. Your job and employment is actually in the U.S., but you work from Europe, and you’re working 40 to 50 hours a week. A lay missionary is exactly what you are, and God’s giving you that open door. It just is just thrilling. It’s exciting not only to see the step of faith, but seeing the fruit that’s coming out of it. I mean, if we were to think of our missionary who went on three years of deputation, you know, and then went to some, you know, we’d expect God to be using something to coming out of that life, you know. And here you are in really the category of a missionary, lay missionary, and we’re seeing the fruit of a missionary that’s coming out of your life. And that is thrilling. And it’s a great encouragement. Our podcast audience is useful predominantly. But I just wonder if there is some adult that’s listening, or one they will be listening to your testimony. and will receive the challenge and they’ll begin to seek God’s face about something that he’s

Brother Erik: putting on their heart and a step of faith. And, uh, maybe if I can speak back to my younger self, huh? Like, you know, cause I was invited as a teenager to go to France and there’s times here where I wonder, you know, what would it have been if I would have responded back then and gone sooner. There’s times being here where I think about where am I at with the language at the moment and where would I have been if I would have gone as I was a teenager, when I was invited to go, when I was approved to go, and what could have been? God knows what’s best and it’s okay, but I just wonder if there could have been even more had I gone at that age.

Mark Gillmore: And I think that leads us to think that, like, you didn’t just sit in your living room and one day wake up in France. I mean, there were steps you took. You did travel. Yes, you prayed. You said, God, you’ve got to be living. But you took initiative, significant initiative. And, you know, the unreached regions of the world aren’t going to show up knocking at your door. Not at your, they might, but they may at your heart’s door. And God is calling you. So open up your eyes. Ask some questions. Take a trip, you know, really seek the Lord in this, but don’t be stuck in passivity and lacking initiative. Thankfully, our God is bigger than anything that we might regret. Thankfully, our God is greater than all of that.

Brother Erik: But it’s not too late. It’s not too late. No, right, yeah. That’s kind of what I felt like, too. Could it have been, is it too late to go now, God, that you’re putting this on my heart? And no, I mean, whatever time he has left for me, it’s worth whatever it is, however many souls he has us reach.

Mark Gillmore: Until our Lord comes back, he’s not willing that any should perish. Yeah. And we should count the long suffering of our Lord as the day of salvation remaining open. And I just want to end with that encouragement that I believe, and I think Eric would echo that, specifically this region of France, that we are living in the day of the greatest open door. God’s drawing the most hearts towards him. And it’s time to be on mission for him, not to be living in fear. And as we always say, in a world of uncertainty and turmoil, the only way to find peace is to stay on mission with Jesus in his Go Mission.

Mark Gillmore: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Thee Generation Podcast. If you’re serious about living a life of total surrender and total dependence, please consider signing the Thee Generation Pledge. It’s not a promise of perfection, but a declaration of direction. To join hundreds of others who have signed the commitment, please visit thegeneration.org. That’s thegeneration.org. slash pledge.