Ryan Swanson: Hello, and welcome back to The Satisfied Podcast. This is Ryan Swanson, and I’m excited you’ve joined us here again on the Degeneration Network. We’re still faithfully pursuing this series of perverted passions and working through this one episode at a time.

We’ve been in here for several months now, and specifically the last few episodes have been a little bit of a sub-series on the eunuch, and what the Matthew 19, specifically, that when Christ refers to the eunuch, what he’s referring to there. And it’s been an exciting little sub-series in this Perverted Passion series.

But in this episode, we’re going to step back a little bit, take a look at the big picture, and not just at those that are called to be single for a period of time or for life, that person that could be referred to, and in Matthew 19 is referred to as the eunuch.

And so in the last episode, the eunuch principle, we talked about how that same principle could be applied to other people as well. That may even not be at a point of knowing whether God has called you to an entire life of celibacy in that way, or if maybe someday he’ll have marriage for you. But I think there’s so many that can benefit from the principle found in that passage in Matthew 19.

So we’re going to branch out a little bit further, even from just a discussion on the eunuch today. But before we do, I want to tie that up with just simply answering the question of what should you do if you think that you may be a eunuch?

Now, we talked about this from one standpoint last time of just being able to, before the Lord, commit to whatever time period He has given you to serve Him in this undistracted way of not worrying about a spouse or dating or anything else at that point, but just being able to solely focus on Him, whether that’s for a period of months or years or indefinitely.

And so we talked about what that looks like in regards to our relationship with the Lord, but what about with other people?

Is it good at this point, and you may be liberated by this truth and understanding about the eunuch, and that it’s given you purpose in this period of your life that otherwise was difficult when, and many times it’s in our churches we’re just presenting as marriage as the ultimate goal for every teen and every young person before God can speak to you or use you in any other way.

And so this could be, and I expect it to be, very liberating and helpful for many young people especially, and many of you have reached out and said as much, so that’s great, but what should we do with that in regards to our relationship with other people? Would it be right at this point to ask our pastor if we can get in front of the whole church and testify about how God has called us to be a eunuch.

Well, I think for several reasons that may not be the most wise thing to do, and I don’t want to speak for every case.

There may be a day when God gives you an opportunity to look back and give testimony to this journey He’s had you on and that understanding to help other people, but we’re pretty young in this at this point, especially if the first time you heard about this was from one of our recent podcasts, then it’s very likely that you don’t even understand all the ramifications of this yet and what God has for you in this area.

So that may be one reason why it may not be most helpful to just spread this in as broad a setting as you can right away. But secondly, it’s because it could easily be misunderstood by other people. So first off, we may not totally understand what God’s doing or calling us to at this point, and we may just know the next step, and that’s fine.

But also, it’s possible, it’s very possible that others may misunderstand and not totally know what you’re referring to, especially if you use that term eunuch, by the way, one that has had a negative connotation for understandable reasons in history. So they may misunderstand and likely will misunderstand what you’re referring to, and so it’ll take a bit of education on their part as well.

Now, if you’re like me, I have felt like I’m reading something that has never been discovered before, and coming to this understanding from Matthew 19, from the help of some that have written on it and are directing in this way, but as I’ve alluded to before, it’s actually not a completely new, or not new at all, understanding of this passage. It’s actually written about and understood by even early church writers.

But also, although there’s not many talking about this, it seems like there’s at least several I’ve come across already of pastors and other leaders who are at least aware of the possible interpretation of Matthew 19 and this application given today, are actually not against it at all. I just don’t know that we’ve implemented it, or maybe we’ve been too scared to talk about it.

But I’ve had several people say, oh yeah, I’ve heard that, or I’ve read that, but I’ve just been waiting for someone to talk about it in our movement. So it is possible that it’s not as much of a surprise to other people as it has been to us in dealing with this, and I honestly hope that’s the case.

We wouldn’t want truth like this to be covered or hidden in any way, so I hope that it’s out there and that other people have the understanding of this as well. But at the same time, it’s very likely, again, that many of you will speak to either haven’t heard of it or haven’t heard it applied in this way. And so it might not be extremely helpful for you to feel the obligation to explain that to everyone you come across.

Now, of course, there’s going to be some people, whether it’s your parents or relatives or church members that are maybe trying to set you up with other people at church, when you go that know that God does not have marriage for you at this point, and you feel like a response is needed, or whatever the proper context, you feel like God does want you to explain this in a way.

You may choose not to use the term eunuch except for to explain it from Matthew 19, but I think probably the simplest of responses is just, I believe that God has called me to a life of unmarried service to Him at this point. They may argue with you and try to convince you otherwise, but just graciously stay firm on that, because that is how the Lord’s led you.

And if they can see the resolve and even excitement in your tone of having discovered God’s calling for you at this point, then I think that should be sufficient. But there may be people and will be people that maybe deserve a little bit more of an explanation if they’re really close to you, or mentors, and so you may find yourself wanting other people to understand. But I would caution you against needing other people to understand.

And in some ways, we couldn’t even expect them to if they’re not called in this way. But just, it’s great to be excited if the Lord’s showing you something here that could be liberating, but just remember the point of the calling is not you. So don’t try to make it about you and needing people to understand you and affirm you in this way.

The point is service to your king, and that is what you were created to do. So that is what you’re going to be fulfilled by. Don’t waste too much time looking for others to affirm you in a role that they were not created for and so likely won’t even understand.

Remember, you are especially gifted to be an undistracted servant. So don’t get distracted trying to explain to others how undistracted you are. I wonder if it’d be easy to get caught up just trying to explain to people and frustrated if they don’t understand or don’t share your excitement.

Remember the goal is that you should be able to be an undistracted servant of the King, so don’t get caught too much on needing other people to affirm you. You find comfort in doing what God has called you to at this point. And I think God will help at the right time the right people in your life to understand and be able to help and guide and lead you to that extent.

It may be helpful. I know I’ve referenced a book throughout this series, and as with any book that we’re going to mention here on the Satisfied Podcast, I can’t say that I unequivocally agree with everything that’s given in this book, but there are some very helpful things.

And so the book that I’ve been referencing is called Born that way after all, and it’s by David Nixon and R.G. Hamm. So it may be helpful if you’re in a context thinking, man, I’d like to learn more about this myself, do some of my own study, or even give to my parents or pastor to look into, and they may already be familiar with this book, by the way.

I have yet to come across somebody who has negative thoughts on this book. I’m sure that’s out there, but so far there’s been several people that said, oh yeah, I remember, I’ve heard about that, I’ve read that, whatever, and have viewed it in a positive light. Just again, I don’t know that we’ve learned how to implement or teach this or deal with it or help people along this way.

So the entirety of the book is really dealing with the eunuch principle in one way or the other. So Born That Way After All by David Nixon, R.G. Hamm, that may help you in describing and explaining to others where necessary and where helpful that are in your life and maybe deserve to know what the Lord is doing in your heart.

But again, I want to step back from just a discussion on the eunuch, those that are seemingly struggling with SSA because—or same-sex attraction is what I’m referring to—because of really where it started, where they were born without sexual attraction at all, and that can be interpreted wrongly as attraction to the same gender. If you have not actually listened—I should have said this—if you’ve not listened to the previous two episodes, you need to go back and listen to those before this episode.

It would be extremely helpful to know what we’re wrapping up here in our discussion of the eunuch and then moving on from here. But this next section, again, more than just the eunuch, this is just dealing with somebody that no matter how they got this way, or came to this conclusion or came to this point, it feels like there’s definitely a serious attraction to the same gender now. So again, regardless of how we got here, this is how I feel, and it feels real.

So Ryan, I don’t care if you’re saying that I got here because of a misunderstanding of my calling as maybe under the eunuch principle or whatever it is, but the fact is I’m here and it feels so real. And there have been some that have reached out and explained that much to me where you could say, yeah, I actually can relate to the confusion at the beginning of not being attracted to the opposite gender. And so there was that confusion.

And so maybe that led to where I’m at. But the fact is now the desires I feel seem very real. So why then could we be feeling something that seems so real, same-sex attraction, that cannot be God-given or biblical?

Well, I just want to give you several possibilities here to show you the various lies of the devil that can result in that very real feeling. And some of this is dealt with in the book that I just referenced, Born That Way After All. So one of these that is referenced in the book that’s quite important is that curiosity is not the same as attraction.

And there’s an illustration given in the book that I feel like maybe is a bit dated now. I’m sure not entirely, but the idea of cigarette smoking within teenagers, at least how one time that was just the cool thing to do, and that many teens started that self-destructive behavior just by wanting to look cool or curious about it. But what began in that then developed an acquired taste that became an addiction for many people that they took to their deathbeds.

But it started with a curiosity. And honestly, we probably all have done things in the past out of sheer curiosity that we would be ashamed or embarrassed to admit now. But just because we have done those things does not mean there is some intrinsic, twisted, unavoidable desire within us to be identified by that action, and that that is something that then we are called to do.

No, what needs to happen, if that’s you and in this area, maybe you’ve gotten to the point where you are now of having seemingly same-sex desires, but it really began with just a curiosity and just experimenting or fantasizing, then I’m telling you, you need to understand that lie of the devil, that he’s wanting you to think that you’re doing this because this is who you are and this is the way you were made. but it was out of a choice.

And though that choice has had significant ramifications and will demand more actions, ultimately what needs to happen is to repent and turn from what you initially turned to out of curiosity. So first of all, understanding curiosity is not the same as attraction. Now secondly, a lie of the devil that could be believed at this point as a source for where these desires may have come from or been developed is this idea of the idle mind.

Romans in the series. Romans 1 verse 21 says, because that when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. And there’s other passages we’ve looked at as well that reference that idea of vain in imaginations, and how we’re to cast down those vain or useless imaginations.

Young people today, perhaps more than ever, have a lot of time on their hands, and if you’re not in a home that is very active or participative with family activities, and you’re doing things together, and you’re doing things in your church, and you have a purpose, and you have chores, and things like that, and you find yourself idle in your room after a full day at school, where, depending on what you’re doing, where you’re going, There is so much sexuality that is pushed on young people.

There is pretty much no age limit or cutoff to how young this is going to be pushed on you, especially in this public school system. But even just exposure in any point of our culture or stores or whatever it is, this is something that the awareness and focus of sexuality is just so pervasive. That’s no surprise to any of us.

So if that’s happening to an 8-, 9-, 10-year-old, and then they’re in their rooms and idle and thinking through, what’s my purpose in life? I’m bored. What am I supposed to be doing?

And all they’ve heard all day or been pushed on maybe by older students or wherever it’s coming from is sexuality. they may be forced into making decisions about sexuality or considering things that they are in no way ready or developed to be doing at that point in the quietness and idleness of a preteen mind.

Sometimes they’re choosing or making decisions about identity, about who they are, who they’re attracted to, who they’re not, just based off of what they’re feeling at that point the pressure that they’re under, and it’s a very dangerous place to be.

So any parents listening to this need to recognize the responsibility to actively, intentionally be instructing and guiding and modeling what the biblical roles are and helping young people to navigate in the world in which we live, and of course helping in whatever way is possible to mitigate the pressure and exposure of sexuality to young people.

But maybe you’re a child listening to this or a teenager, and you recognize that, yeah, I think I made some damaging decisions when I didn’t have the guidance I needed at that point. Well, get under mentorship at this point. You need to get counsel.

You need to get help, ideally from your parents. You say, my parents, they’re the ones that left me to figure out on my own to begin with. Well, I’ll tell you, many times, I’ve said not every case, but many times your parents are what you make them.

They may not feel secure enough or needed enough or wanted enough to be everything you need, but when you are willing to go to them and say, here’s an area that I really need some direction with. I’m honestly lost, mom and dad, when it comes to sexuality and everything going on in this world. I need some help and direction.

You put them in that place over you, and nine times out of ten, they’re going to it, at least the best they know how. Let that be the first response in getting help is to go to the parents God has given you.

And I understand not everyone has that kind of availability for Christian parents in their life, but default to that option, and then a pastor or someone else in your life that could be a spiritual leader could be a follow-up or second option to get help appropriately. But it is very, very important in this way that we get help outside of ourselves and get another perspective if this is something that we may have just arrived at based on an idle mind or our own vain imaginations.

So definitely a lie of the devil. You felt something that feels so real, but it’s just started being born out of an idle mind at a very vulnerable time as a young person. Now, thirdly, and this one is quite important and I think related to the fourth as well, is that same-gender closeness is not the same as same-sex attraction.

I’m actually going to read you a portion right out of the book that I’ve been referencing, Born That Way After All, and see what he says on this topic. He says, this is important. Many young adults are convinced by others that they must be gay because they have had same-sex desires for closeness when they were young.

What these victims do not understand is that we all had those desires. Just because they had a desire for same-sex closeness when they were in first grade does not mean that they are gay. All first grade boys have those attractions.

Boys have best friends who are boys, and girls have best friends who are girls. And those friendships have nothing to do with sexuality. I think that could be helpful in understanding why someone can look back as a boy to their boyhood and say, man, the closest confidants I had or those I trusted or those I was loyal to or those I wanted to be around were the boys.

And that should not be cause for confusion at all. That is something that you need to understand to an extent we all, as young people, felt that same way. In other words, had a desire for that closeness to other people of the same gender.

And although that may have, through other circumstances or further lies of the devil, developed into something sexual, it never was initially. So when someone says, well, I always remember being close to the boys in my class, and for that being—well, that very likely in itself at that age was extremely normal and natural, because it was not sexual. Now, it may have been perverted into something sexual later through other circumstances, but it very likely did not begin that way.

And it certainly is a lie of the devil to think that just because you can look back and see that friendship, the desire for same-gender closeness and friendship and familiarity, means that there was something sexual about that, and that you intrinsically are sexually then attracted to the same gender. That young, natural, innocent friendship is not sexual. But now this last one that we’ll deal with at this point is emotional closeness.

And we referenced this a bit in our first episode on the eunuch principle a couple episodes ago, but there is very commonly an emotional connection around often key events. So you’ll see this with a volleyball or baseball team when a baseball team wins the World Series, and they’re just all over each other rejoicing. And there is undoubtedly a very close connection because of the battle.

You’ve been in it together, and you’ve pushed through, and you have fought the same battles, and it’s been teamwork, and you’ve been trusting each other and leaning on each other and contributing. And there’s just that close teamwork at the same time with a crisis and an incredible breakthrough and victory. There’s so much emotion at that moment that there is a very significant bond formed in that way.

So in another case, it could be with soldiers on a battlefield come out feeling like maybe no one else can quite understand what they’ve been through other soldiers. And so because of, again, that familiarity, there’s a very, very tight bond.

And there may be a situation in your life that has caused such a bond with a person of the same gender that could be misunderstood, and maybe even the devil lying and saying, you see, you feel that bond with them emotionally, that’s because you’re attracted sexually to the same gender, when nothing about the baseball team is sexual, nothing about the battlefield is sexual. This is something completely different that, again, the devil through lies could convince us that we are something that we are not.

And I illustrated this a couple episodes ago, dealing with the time that I felt very alone as a Christian in Dubai, walking around by myself in the Dubai Mall, when, through circumstances, I end up meeting another believer.

He’s from Nigeria, and maybe the first Nigerian I had ever met at that point and just had a wonderful time with he and his wife that developed into a deep friendship because of a time and a time of especially vulnerability, feeling a bit apprehensive about current circumstances there in Dubai, that I met someone I could relate to and that automatically caused a very deep emotional bond.

Now, don’t let such bonds emotionally with other people that have been through circumstances with you, or for whatever reason, don’t let the devil misconstrue those things to pervert that and make you think that that’s something it’s not. Now, these bonds are normal and deep and special. In fact, even referenced in Scripture, if we were to look at what is described between David and Jonathan is a very deep bond.

David said at one point in 2 Samuel 1, I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan. Very pleasant hast thou been unto me. Thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.

Now, so there is something there that is emotionally extremely deep, but there’s no implication of sexuality. They are two different things.

So again, as we deal with lies on this level, don’t feel like just because there is a deep God-given friendship, just because that somebody means so much for you either presently or in the past, just because that you have been so helped by the evident love of a brother in Christ or a sister in Christ to you that is your same gender does not imply any type of sexual attraction. That is not establishing an identity for you.

It is normal to respond to helpful Christ-like love on that level in a very special way. It is absolutely normal, it is biblical, and it absolutely should not be confused with anything sexual or perverted. So there’s several lies that we could easily fall to to get to a point where we’re at now, and you’re saying, why does this feel so real?

Well, it’s very likely that we have succumbed to one of these or another lie of the devil, and I’m not pretending like we have exhausted the potential deceptions from the enemy here, but it’s just a list. But the idea I want you to get is to recognize that there are many ways that SSA desires, same-sex attraction, can be faked. There are many lies from the devil that result in SSA, and it should not be a shock to us.

Whether or not you’re related to one of these that I listed, just know that your feelings are subjective and relative to so many factors in your life. But God’s Word and His calling on your life are not. Next time, we’re going to dive a bit deeper into practically what a person needs to do who is struggling with SSA, What a path of victory could look like, and even what does full victory look like with someone who struggles with SSA?

How much deliverance is available for us? As always, feel free to reach out. Ryan at satisfied.org is my email to share your story or to ask further a follow-up question.

The feedback in this series has been absolutely phenomenal and extremely helpful for me as we’ve worked our way through discovering the truth around this topic. But as we conclude here, if the Lord has spoken to you about a certain lie from the devil that you have been believing, then take this next month to seek the Lord for affirmation and to the identity He has chosen for you. And trust Him as you continue on this journey to be less gratified and more satisfied with Jesus Christ.

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Thee Generation Podcast. If you’ve been blessed or helped in any way by this episode or any other episodes, please consider sharing what God has done in your life. Your testimony could be exactly what someone else needs to take their own step out of the boat.