Mark Gillmore: Welcome to the Go Mission podcast.

I’m Mark Gilmore.

If you heard our second podcast in this series, you met Ben Sikma, a young man called by God to share God’s love with Muslims.

You’ll recall how God quite providentially connected Ben to an unreached Muslim people group living in his own city.

These are the Rohingya from Southeast Asia, marginalized people who have significant immigrant population right here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, also down in Chicago.

Ben is now married and living with his wife among the Rohingya here in Wisconsin, learning the language, building relationships, and speaking of Christ.

I appreciate any number of you who may already be praying for Ben’s ministry, perhaps as a result of that original podcast.

Well, this summer presents a significant opportunity to advance the gospel among the Rohingya.

Part of the missions training ministry that I have helped lead includes a linguistics and Bible translation program.

This summer, a team from our school will be focusing their effort on groundbreaking work among the Rohingya.

It’s really quite thrilling to be a part of this.

I’ve got two of the team members here with me for an interview podcast.

Kathy Ann Bernstein is highly trained in language learning, including learning languages that have never even yet been written down.

She’s one of those people who love grammar and morphological meaning.

Now, if you hate English, please don’t skip the podcast.

You might just learn something that will inspire you to at least try harder at your English.

Also with me is Stephen Gilmore.

He’s a missions-focused Bible college and seminary student, completing a degree in linguistics and Bible translation along with Bible doctrine, etc.

So he is a summer intern on the team.

Kathy Ann, I’ve always marveled at your heart and effort that you’ve put into obtaining the expertise in your field.

And I know it’s been for the purpose of guiding real-world efforts in gospel advance.

Could you give us a summary of the development of the Rohingya language itself?

Does it have a written form?

Does it have a grammar?

How many speakers are there worldwide?

Guest: Well, all languages have a grammar.

Whether it has been described is another matter.

We have found that there are some descriptions being written of the Rohingya language currently, and we are studying those.

There is a writing system or two that has been used for Rohingya, but it’s highly disputed.

In other words, the Rohingya here in Milwaukee do not acknowledge any writing system that has been used elsewhere.

And that’s actually a hurdle we’re going to have to get over because as we work with the language, we are going to need to get it in written form, especially for the purpose of Bible translation.

There are somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million speakers of Rohingya worldwide.

It’s a number that’s a little hard to nail down, especially when you’re dealing with a group that has been dispersed because of genocide.

And so the exact number is not really easy to come by, but that’s the best estimate I’ve been able to get, somewhere just under 2 million people.

Mark Gillmore: That’s very interesting what you’re sharing there, because as we conclude our podcast, we’re going to be talking about prayer. and part of what we’re praying for is the broader cultural issues surrounding the language itself.

Exactly.

Like how do you write stuff and there’s conflict even between the Rohingya on how to handle this.

So that is something to keep in mind as a serious matter of prayer.

Well, Stephen, before I ask you a question here about the Rohingya Project, I wonder if you could just share your testimony for just a minute regarding the surrender of your life to world missions. and the reason that’s led you to even be a part of this effort in the first place.

Guest: Sure.

I grew up in a good Christian home, and my dad instilled in those children a heart for missions.

And I remember, of course, I got saved at an early age.

But after that, I mean, there’s never been a time in my life that I’ve never thought I would be anything other than a missionary.

I never, when I was young, I never thought I’d be a firefighter, policeman, or a dump truck driver.

I just thought I would be a missionary.

So that’s what I can remember from very early on.

But I remember a lot of different missionaries coming to our church, but I think my dad might have given me this vision for Cambodia, Southeast Asia specifically.

I remember Brad Blanton presenting Cambodia and then Tom Johnson and then the Bowles family as well.

They just stood out to me.

And I really liked Brad Blanton’s prayer card, so that really stuck out to me.

But I remember just as I grew up, I think maybe six or seven years old, I just went forward and surrendered to missions again.

As the Lord would work in my heart, I remember every time I’d just go forward.

I remember in 10th grade again, the Lord really got a hold of my heart.

After a victory conference, I went forward again and surrendered to missions.

I remember, I think when Michael Guilherme, who you might have heard about Muslim, saved from Iran, and now just actually just graduated from our Bible, from our seminary degree, seminary with a Bible translation degree.

But I remember him speaking here for the first time.

I went forward to surrender to missions again, just every time.

And I remember as I was in World Harvest Fields, a class in Bible college that my dad was teaching, the Lord working in my heart.

And I remember him just showing me that I could just surrender again and again and again.

That it didn’t need to be this one, this big moment, but just this, you know, this everyday life of surrender.

And I think back over, especially over this past year, where the Lord has brought different trials into my life and shown me that I can just live a life of surrender.

I know there have been specific times where I was speaking, and sometimes I think of myself as a funny guy, and I inserted something that I thought was funny two times I was speaking.

And I remember the Holy Spirit so clearly saying, why are you doing that?

Just say what I want you to say.

I remember the next time I got up to speak and I don’t know what happened.

God’s presence was all over it because I was not there anymore.

So since then, I’ve just been learning what surrender is.

So that’s pretty much my story on surrender to world missions.

And I honestly believe that I’m not called to a specific place, but to a specific work, which can be done all over this world that every believer is called to.

So that’s pretty much it.

Mark Gillmore: That’s good.

And it’s a matter of surrender.

That’s a very powerful point.

Now, as you look ahead to the summer here in this project, let me just ask you a question.

I know you’re an intern here, but how would you go about learning Rohingya?

Are there any tools available?

What’s the process look like?

Guest: Yeah, well, first of all, I would say it’s just a lot of hard work.

You’ve got to put your mind to it, and you can’t get discouraged when you’re learning a language.

But Rohingya does have a few helps out there.

There’s a Learn Rohingya website available, which I need to delve into.

Mark Gillmore: What’s that website?

Guest: I think it is.

I think it’s Learn Rohingya.

Mark Gillmore: Learn Rohingya.

Yeah.

So any of you out there could go ahead and look at that site.

Learn Rohingya.

How do you spell Rohingya?

Guest: R-O-H-I-N-G-Y-A.

Mark Gillmore: There it is.

So go ahead, Stephen, on that.

Guest: Yeah.

So just delving into that website, I think, Ms.

Barnshine, you have looked into it a little bit, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So first looking into there and just getting a grasp of, you know, the alphabet.

And then, you know, just greetings are helpful.

Certain business terms and just relationship terms interacting.

But then just getting out there with some of Ben Sikma’s contacts on the south side there and just meeting them, talking with them.

And that actually doesn’t scare me too much.

I enjoy that part, you know, even trying things and failing.

But just I think a lot of testing and being willing to show that you want to learn the language with the people.

So that’s where I’m going to start, that type of immersion.

Mark Gillmore: Yes, and that’s fun, just trying those greeting terms and reaching out to somebody who’s a stranger.

You’re right, that is fun and should be a lot of fun.

Do you have any spiritual goals in mind as you encounter, make some relationships, anything you’d be praying about, looking for God to give in that way?

Guest: Yeah, I would love to, so far, we haven’t seen a convert saved from the Rohingya.

So I would love to see that.

At least, I mean, Ben Sikma’s been, you know, tilling the ground for a while in that area, planting.

And I’d love to do that watering to see that soul saved.

I’d love to see a Bible study started.

And also, I’d love to even help Ben understand the mindset of the Rohingya a little bit better.

I think Ms.

Bernstein, Ms.

Laufer, Sarah Laufer is also another one of us joining us on this project.

But they’re very brainy, if I could say this.

And using their analytical skills, and then I can do a little bit too, but together and just give Ben a framework of how they think so that we can see a breakthrough.

I know it’s also going to take a lot of warfare prayer too.

Mark Gillmore: That’s good.

It’s a team effort and all of you working together on that.

You mentioned Ben and Sarah and their work among the Rohingya.

Do you know of any significant steps forward that have taken place in some of their efforts?

Kathy Ann, have you talked with them about that?

Guest: Yes, it is exciting to see what the Lord has been doing with Ben and Sarah, even just how the Lord gave them that initial contact about four years ago when it would seem like a chance meeting.

And how it developed pretty soon, Ben was reffing their soccer games.

And by their request, two other significant things that have taken place have been that over a year ago, actually I think it was over two years ago now, the Rohingya let Ben and his family present a Christmas pageant in the basement of their mosque, which is basically where all their cultural gatherings take place.

And also, there was, as an immigrant people, often what happens with immigrant peoples, I’ve worked with a number of different immigrant peoples, but they get assigned a birth date when they immigrate.

So their birthdays are all January 1st.

And this last January, Ben and Sarah held a birthday party for all the Rohingya, and about 70 Rohingya came to their church there on the south side of Milwaukee to have their birthdays celebrated.

That also was tremendously significant.

I think it’s wonderful, too, when I hear Ben converse with them in his Rohingya.

It’s obvious he has taken time and effort to learn their language, and they’re comfortable with it.

So these are some things that God has done to open doors and prepare the way.

Mark Gillmore: So big picture, what’s it going to take to get a Bible in Rohingya language?

Guest: A number of things.

The first thing we need is saved translators.

We do need people who will get a vision for translating the Bible into their own language, and they do have to be believers.

When you begin translating anything, you begin to recognize that no two languages fit each other precisely.

But when you’re dealing with inspired words, you want to be as careful as possible.

And when you have those times where the languages don’t fit each other, you’ve got to be able to talk to the author and get his mind on the matter.

So save translators who are dedicated to that task, who know how to walk in the Spirit and are dedicated to getting the Bible in their language.

We also need a writing system.

And we alluded to that a little bit earlier in the podcast, but the writing system is key and we cannot just go in and tell them what writing system we are going to use.

Since the Tower of Babel, languages have a great deal of emotional intensity associated with them and that we’ve already seen with the contact Ben has had with the Rohingya that we are not going to be able to tell them what writing system to use but we’ve got to have one so we need one.

Then you need a linguistic consultant, that will be mostly the role that we on the team have as we train the translators, mother tongue translators, and work with them on translation checks and teach them what their own language is made of and teach them with the original languages how to use resources that will help them with those.

And finally, we are going to need some texts from their language that we translate into ours so we can see what their words mean, especially those words that are hard to translate, those words that are there just for grammatical purposes.

They don’t have much semantic content.

So we can see how their grammar works, and so we can see how their discourse is structured.

We do need a number of texts, and those who will be willing to give us those texts.

So those are some of the things we need to get into a Bible translation.

Mark Gillmore: So as we think to the summer’s project teamwork, are there, if we denoted several key matters for prayer that our Go Mission listeners could just join in in the prayer burden?

What could we list?

Guest: Yes, the things we want you to pray for, please pray that we will get the right contacts.

They need to be people who will be recognized in their community as having authority so that so that the work that we do carries authority with it.

And every ethnic community has its own set of criteria for who is recognized as a leader.

I don’t necessarily know who those people are.

And so just pray that the Lord will bring us to the right people and open their hearts to working with us.

Also, we do need believers.

And as Stephen already said, we would love to be able to lead people to the Lord this summer.

We’re going to keep that as our purpose.

We’re not going to let the translation work overtake us and get so involved in translation and linguistic analysis that we sideline people’s real spiritual need.

We need community leadership approval.

It is a tight-knit community.

And when you’re working with a minority community displaced, they stick together very tightly and if the community leadership does not get on board with us we will not have entrance so we do need the Lord to give that to us and then the writing system that we will know how to work with them in establishing a writing system or using one that has been established that they will accept it those are key prayer requests

Mark Gillmore: anything to add to that Stephen?

Guest: yeah we just need a great spiritual breakthrough really still and in the whole just in the whole work with them at this point the the imam the leader pretty much of their community shaka shaka ali i think is uh is the man and he he kind of likes to think of himself as in control of everything so we do need wisdom on whether Ben has done some things where he’s tried to ask and try to cooperate with him if possible, but sometimes he said this past outreach they did with the New Year’s, they kind of went around him because we have the gospel to get out.

So there’s definitely a balance there, and we can’t wait for resistant leaders.

So we need an absolute breakthrough and desperate prayer.

Mark Gillmore: Kathy, I know that prayer has been an important part of your personal walk and your ministry.

Out of that context of intercession for missions, could you give some encouragement to our listeners on what you’ve seen God do in answer to prayer?

Maybe there’s an instance where you saw the definite hand of God.

Guest: Yes.

One of the main things is just seeing the Lord bless Ben’s ministry from the start.

He kept me apprised of the situation as he got involved with the Rohingya, and I prayed for him all the way along, never dreaming that I would actually be joining him in the work.

But it has been good to see God’s hand on Ben’s life.

But even some very specific things recently, how God put our team together this summer, it was amazing to watch because it was nothing I foresaw and how God brought the different ones of us together until we couldn’t do anything else with our summer besides get into Rohingya translation.

And it’s what I wanted to do, but I could never have made that happen.

And I never would even have thought of asking God for a team like this.

So as I began to pray for the Lord to work with Rohingya, what God did in answer to my prayer was beyond what I thought.

Then even the fact that veteran missionaries and veteran translators have counseled Ben on how he ought to gain entrance into the Rohingya community and approaches to getting the gospel in, that was exactly like our team comes meeting those needs.

And I did not know that was going on behind the scenes.

Those who were counseling him, telling him, you need to do some cultural engagement, you need to give them a vision for cultural preservation, that’s exactly what we’re going to do by gathering those texts at the beginning and documenting their language and giving them some written form.

So it’s just been good to see how God has put these things together in answer to prayer.

Mark Gillmore: I think I recall how that some years ago, as I had come back from a missions trip in Cameroon, I gave a list of villages to pray for.

And I think you took the Okarika village, right?

Yes.

And there was a report that came out of that, from that village, maybe now just a year or two ago.

Do you remember what that report was?

Guest: Yes, that the church is thriving, and we’d had no contact for something like six years.

And there actually is a man who has taken leadership.

I don’t think he’s actually acknowledged as a pastor yet.

Not sure he’s going to be a pastor, but that the church itself has been, God has been answering prayer specifically that they would understand what it is to be a church, to reach people, to multiply.

They are on mission, and God has raised up leadership internally in that church.

Mark Gillmore: I was encouraged with that report.

I think there’s a river that flows through their quarters or their village, And according to that report, there were churches, or two churches, one meeting on either side of the river.

And so God had doubled the answer to prayer.

Guest: That’s right, yes.

Mark Gillmore: And I just bring that up because there’s many on this podcast who will be from a distance, you know, praying about this matter.

They’ll never see it.

They might not even, you know, ever come here to Milwaukee or meet a Rohingya in Chicago.

But if they’ll pray, they can actually see God double the work.

You don’t have to see it to pray for it and to be part of this project.

It’s very interesting that these barriers of culture and language are around us, and really they come right out of God’s dispersion of mankind there at the Tower of Babel.

And when you add these human barriers and then there’s the spiritual barriers on top of that false religion, ideas that would come out of Islam and so forth, we really have to recognize that this gospel advance this summer can’t happen on just human power.

It requires the power of God.

There’s cultural barriers, there’s language barriers, and there’s spiritual barriers.

And it shows us our own human weakness, our impotence, but it calls us to call upon God for his omnipotence and to really just gather together those who would pray for us.

In fact, one of those weaknesses that the team is experiencing right now is Ben and Sarah, his wife.

They’re expecting their first child, which is really exciting, except that she is battling morning sickness, and it’s made them weak, you know, humanly weak in their ability just to engage even this project this summer.

Things like that are going to happen that show us we can’t even come up to this moment.

We’re so weak.

And God himself has to intervene.

And so we just need prayer warriors standing behind this time and time again.

And so no matter what lies ahead, we know, however, that the power of God’s available.

He’s commanded us to get the gospel to every nation, which literally means every distinct people group, and we’re dealing with one right here.

And I’m comforted with Romans 15 where pioneer missionary Paul said that he was trying to preach the gospel where Christ was not yet named, knowing that there were people prepared by God who would understand that truth even though they had never seen it, never heard of it.

And that is something we need to pray for, that kind of person, the person prepared by God to be that contact, to become that believer, to become that key translator.

God knows who that is. so miracles are what we need and we know god is going to be faithful and will you join the team those of you who are listening here will you join this matter of prayer will you be one of those who are especially going to rejoice in what god’s about to do because you were a part of it a part of it through prayer and i want to invite you if you would if you want to join this prayer effort in a specific way, could you send me an email at gomission at thegeneration.org, and we’ll be glad to keep you in tune.

Periodic updates through the course of the summer.

Kathy-Ann, Stephen, they’ll put those together so that you can pray specifically as this project is progressing.

We will greatly appreciate it.

So remember, the only way to stay at peace in a world of turmoil and uncertainty is to stay on mission with Jesus in his go mission.