Mark Gillmore: Welcome to the Go Mission podcast.

I’m Mark Gilmore here, and today I’ve got the privilege to come to you from the land of Cameroon in the west side of Central Africa.

It’s been my privilege to journey over here probably now over 15 times since 2009.

And I have with me here today one of my good friends and key partners here in Cameroon, Pastor Ernest.

And I want you to meet him.

And before I do, I just want to mention that we are sitting outside on a sunny day in January.

It’s probably about 80 degrees.

And I don’t know what day or time you’re listening to this podcast, but it is a lovely, warm January day here in Africa.

I couldn’t pick a better place to be.

Pastor Earnest: The sun is shining on us.

Mark Gillmore: But there’s also some various noises, road noises, animal noises.

And I hope you enjoy the little extra sounds of Africa that you’ll get in this podcast.

But Brother Ernest, welcome.

Good to have you.

Thank you, Pastor Gilman.

Thank you for the many warm welcomes you’ve given me and the great experiences that we’ve had together.

Pastor Earnest: I’m glad you can come.

Mark Gillmore: Indeed.

We have trekked the mountains of northwest Cameroon many times.

Through aqua villages.

Yes.

Now, you grew up in one of those villages.

What was the name of your village?

Yes, okay.

What was the size of that?

Pastor Earnest: Bamason was about 2,000, a little bit above 2,000 people.

Mark Gillmore: I love the villages of Africa, and I’m sure you do.

I really do.

What is it?

What about those villages makes them so special?

Pastor Earnest: I like the communality and the fraternity of the people.

That is so distinct and different from the way city life operates.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

I feel like village life is true Africa.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: And you get into the cities and it just is so much of the modern common ways that really that we kind of struggle with, temptations and all that.

But I love the villages.

Pastor Earnest: Right.

Mark Gillmore: So what did you enjoy in that village life?

Pastor Earnest: I grew up.

One of the favorite things I would do almost every day was playing football with other kids.

Yes.

Mark Gillmore: Now, football in Africa has got a different name over on our side.

Soccer, right?

Yeah.

So did you have a team? that you played on?

Pastor Earnest: I played on the village team for long.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

So you would play other villages?

I would play other villages.

What position did you have on the team?

Pastor Earnest: I played as a central striker.

Mark Gillmore: Wow.

So you were like the Mbappe of Bamasi.

Bamasi, yeah.

Or the Abu Bakr, right?

Right, yeah.

He’s the famous Cameroon.

Cameroon striker.

Currently.

Wow.

Well, are those days past for you?

Pastor Earnest: Shortly after I got saved, I gave up footballing.

Mark Gillmore: The footballing came to an end.

Pastor Earnest: Yeah.

Mark Gillmore: But there’s still the, it’s probably still in your feet, maybe.

Maybe not in your lungs or something.

Pastor Earnest: Right, because I still do a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Playing with the boys.

Playing with the boys and with other men here in town every Saturday.

Mark Gillmore: Nice.

That’s good exercise.

Yes.

I’m glad to hear that.

So tell us how you came to the Lord.

Pastor Earnest: I graduated from high school in 2000.

I could not afford the finances to go to a university, but I still wanted to.

So I decided that I’ll raise up the money so that the next school year I’ll be able to go.

And the Lord saw what, and controlled all of that, and I was able to walk in a Christian institution, where every morning they would preach the gospel.

For close to about two months, I would hear the gospel every morning.

And I remember hearing a message on the parable of the Sitzor, and I realized that day very clearly that I had issues in my heart and that was sin and I also realized that I needed a Savior.

And of course, after then, I made the right choice.

I chose to believe in Jesus.

Mark Gillmore: Wow.

Praise the Lord.

Pastor Earnest: Amen.

Mark Gillmore: That changed everything for you?

Pastor Earnest: Everything.

Everything.

It changed my life.

It gave me hope.

I was sure of a future in heaven with Jesus.

Mark Gillmore: Just for a moment, think of the great host of young people right now here in this country that need that chance.

Pastor Earnest: Millions, millions.

We’re talking about millions of young people.

Come along as a youthful population.

Yes.

And in about two weeks from now, from today, they will be celebrating Youth Day.

You just need to go to one of those centers, and you will understand better the youthful population of Cameroon.

Mark Gillmore: And just gain the burden.

Yes.

That is for those souls.

As you encounter young people, teenagers here in Cameroon, how do you find them spiritually?

Are they open?

Pastor Earnest: I think many of them, at their younger age, they are very tender, they are very open.

When they grow and begin to go to schools and study much, they begin to develop some resistance to the gospel.

And there’s a lot of temptations.

Yes.

They are exposed now to a lot of temptations.

They begin experimenting with drugs and immorality.

They listen to the wrong kind of music and things like that.

Mark Gillmore: It really is heartbreaking to see those strongholds come into these lives.

Now, you had the opportunity then from your salvation to begin to, what opportunities for spiritual growth came into your life?

Pastor Earnest: Shortly after salvation, I began leading the church that I was attending.

I joined that church and I began leading that church for close to about a period of two years.

And I sensed a lot wanting me to study, to be better prepared for the opportunities that lies ahead of me.

And then in 2003, I went to a Bible institute.

Mark Gillmore: So that Bible institute, you were sharing with me how while you were taking that training, you were also involved in your church.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: How did those two go together for you?

Pastor Earnest: I will go to the Institute beginning Monday through Thursday, and then I’ll be back in the village for the weekend.

And during the weekend, I have the men’s class on Saturday, and then, of course, we have church on Sunday.

Mark Gillmore: And you were leading that?

I was leading that.

It was a privilege.

Yes.

So the things you were learning, you were immediately teaching.

Teaching them, yeah.

Sharing and leading the church.

Well, I think that’s a profound opportunity.

Pastor Earnest: Yes, it was.

Some of the men that were in my class on Saturday have grown up to be pastors, and my job men, and leading churches, and they are really doing good.

Mark Gillmore: So clearly God had his hand on your life, bringing you to himself, putting that burden in your heart, but he also matched that with an opportunity.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: That you could take in truth and share it with others.

Pastor Earnest: Right.

Mark Gillmore: And it really established you in a pattern of spiritual leadership.

Pastor Earnest: That is it.

Mark Gillmore: And spiritual growth.

Pastor Earnest: Right.

It was a privilege that some of my fellow students did not have.

I’m so thankful God brought me into that place and met the need that was there.

Mark Gillmore: Now, as you have gone forward from that point, how have you been able to put perhaps that pattern into your life now as you have been influencing other young men coming up like you?

Pastor Earnest: When I finished from the Bible Institute, I kind of like went back and settled down as a pastor.

I really easily forgot how the Lord brought me up.

And it was not until 2010, ministering together with you at Faith Baptist Church, that the Lord reminded me.

And I think the Lord really dealt with me and I made a decision that I would step out of the pastorate and that I’ll be willing to go into regional church planting.

At that time, I did not know what to do.

I did not know how to do it.

But again, we met in 2014 in the village of Bombay, shortly after you started the church.

And I was there with you together for a week.

And the Lord really just met the needs.

And those dynamics about the principle of multiplication became very clear to me.

And I came back from Bombay saying, wow, this is what I needed.

And this is what I should be doing.

And ever since then, I have been trusting the Lord to see the gospel spread.

I’ve been trusting the Lord to see new churches started and gathered.

And, of course, to see these new converts develop and grow into future leaders for these churches.

Mark Gillmore: Amen.

God has definitely matched us in this burden.

Pastor Earnest: Right.

Mark Gillmore: It’s a neat thing to realize that God gave you that taste there as a young believer.

Yes.

And not necessarily realizing all that God was giving you now is actually the very thing that you’re going to give to others.

Pastor Earnest: Yes, that’s it.

Mark Gillmore: Wow, God is so good.

And sometimes we may not understand the process that God wants us to employ.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: And we’re growing in that.

Even this last conference, we studied a little bit, well, a whole lot about the pattern of Christ with his disciples and those stages of his disciple-making and multiplying ministry.

Could you maybe just share with us what we learned even recently as it matches what we’re discussing?

Pastor Earnest: Again, I saw the Lord meeting my own needs.

I remember talking with you over the phone about the need to do something that would particularly meet the needs of our future leaders here.

The desire was there, but I did not know how to go about it.

And it was not until this conference was studying, teaching, and preaching, And the model that Jesus used in developing his followers became very clear.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Pastor Earnest: All those stages became very clear to me.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Pastor Earnest: And I really want to employ those in my ministry.

Mark Gillmore: Could you just summarize?

I believe there’s four stages.

Yeah, there are four stages.

Could you just summarize each of those?

Pastor Earnest: Stage one would be that stage of evangelism and see Jesus inviting people to come and see.

We want to broadly spread the gospel.

We want also people who come to see a demonstration of the power of God in the salvation of souls like that.

We want them to satisfy their curiosity as they come to Jesus in faith.

In step two, we see Jesus inviting his disciples, come follow me.

This is where we really want to transfer truth in the process of teaching them and causing them to obey.

And at this stage, we really want to make use of discovering Bible study methods to help them discover those truths as they follow Jesus.

And then we move from stage two to stage three.

And Jesus, is that why Jesus said, come be with me?

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Pastor Earnest: Come be with me.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Pastor Earnest: And during that conference, the one thing that was so striking, was so outstanding, was the witness.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

Pastor Earnest: Come be with me.

Yes.

Be with Jesus Christ.

And that’s the stage during which we want to transform life.

Yes.

We want to be with them.

We want to spend time with them.

And this stage kind of overlap with stage two because there’s still a lot of truth, teaching of truth going on.

But also at this stage, you are really like transferring life into this four-nose land.

And we see that happening with Jesus and his disciples.

Mark Gillmore: Yeah, in that stage, I feel like I have been learning much along with you, how out of a larger group, Jesus selected a small group, just 12.

Yes.

Because this transfer of life on life had to happen on that intimate level.

Pastor Earnest: Right.

Mark Gillmore: Because he was raising up leaders for what would expand out from there.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: And I feel like often many of us don’t have that opportunity.

Pastor Earnest: Sometimes we focus on larger groups, bigger groups, and we forget that it will be more effective if we were to relate with smaller groups like that.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

You know, young people, I know you’re sitting there and listening, and really you’re in that stage of being of an early disciple, many of you.

And you need someone to be with, a leader that will develop this closeness.

And I can’t always assign such a person to you, but I want to encourage you to look around and see someone you can choose to be with.

Maybe it’s a pastor.

Maybe it’s a youth leader.

Maybe it’s your parent who’s a spiritual leader in your life.

And instead of separating yourselves from these leaders who are just above you in the next generation of life, instead, make a deliberate focus to become close to a spiritual leader.

You might be able to actually cause this stage to happen for yourself.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: Find a mentor.

Be available to them.

Don’t just think in terms of your own peers.

Find someone who can be a spiritual leader in your life.

And that could be a lifelong stability to your leadership.

And then what’s the final phase, stage four?

Pastor Earnest: The final phase, phase four, is the invitation, come stay with me, come remain, come abide.

Yes.

And you see that principle in John chapter 15, rather.

And what we expect to see at this stage, we want to release them.

We want to give them ministry opportunities.

And as they go, we expect them to be fruitful.

So again, it’s a key essential in the model that Jesus used to develop his followers.

Sometimes we are afraid to release leaders.

We don’t want to, we are afraid of the mistakes that they will do, they will make.

But we really just want to come to that state that we say, okay.

Mark Gillmore: It’s in your hands, right?

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: The mission’s in your hands.

Pastor Earnest: Yeah.

Mark Gillmore: And we look at that in the life of Jesus, but we don’t always learn it from a model, from procedure, because he really did that.

He said, I’m leaving you.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: This works in your hands.

But think of the faith he created.

Greater works will you do than I have done.

Right.

Can we not reflect that same faith as we’re raising up the next generation?

We can.

Shouldn’t we?

We can.

Shouldn’t we say it’s going to be greater in you than it’s been in me?

Pastor Earnest: Yeah, that’s the point.

Mark Gillmore: Young people, I’m afraid sometimes we don’t do that.

We actually look ahead and see it’s going to be less.

It’s going to be worse.

Pastor Earnest: than it’s been but jesus did not have that we look more on the failures and the inabilities and but we should be following that model yes following that model i’m convinced that we are

Mark Gillmore: living in the greatest missionary age ever yeah and if i could transfer that faith transfer that confidence to you all that you will expect god to do greater works through you than have been done before.

That would be like Jesus.

Right.

That would be his pattern.

And truly, when we think of Cameroon, and certainly all of Africa, but here we are in Cameroon, what’s your hope?

What do you see as the opportunity right now in this country?

Pastor Earnest: There are opportunities everywhere.

And opportunities in every village.

And I will say opportunities in every young convert.

We just have to prepare them to bring them to that point of greater works.

It’s all our responsibility.

And right now, there are several young men that are committed, and I’m so excited how the Lord has brought some connections together.

I see these young men as the future of the work here in Cameroon.

Yes.

Mark Gillmore: I’ve met a few of them.

I’m thinking of Pastor Orlando, a young man that is just being ordained to lead a local church.

I’m thinking of Bashiru, an evangelist going to a Muslim area.

Tell me a little bit about those men.

Pastor Earnest: I’ve known Bashiru for quite some times now.

And last week during the conference, we have spent some good moments together.

He has just opened up to share his heart.

The first thing we talked about was the need to organize more frequent training sessions like this.

And right now we are thinking about doing it together with him in DOC, where people who could not travel that far to come could benefit from that training.

But also we talk about the possibility for him to go into these Bamun villages.

There are so many Bamun villages.

He can speak Bamun.

He is learning French.

The Lord is already putting in his heart the desire to go be with these people and train them and just help them see churches started and multiply like that.

Mark Gillmore: Amen.

And Bashiru would be about 20 years old?

Pastor Earnest: Bashiru would be about 23.

Mark Gillmore: 23.

Yeah.

And he’s already ready to take the truth we’ve been sharing and go share it with someone else.

Even in the conference, he took a session and as a young man did a masterful job at presenting and training.

I’m excited this opportunity that he has.

And then there’s Orlando.

Pastor Earnest: Orlando.

I met Orlando about the same time last year when he first came to Balthusam.

But he was saved back in 2018 in Sapga.

Somebody from Seth Falker’s house led Orlando to the Lord.

And that was when the crisis broke out in the Northwest.

But Orlando was baptized in the Living Hope Baptist Church in Sapga.

He left for Yahonde.

He was kind of cut off from fellowship, but was reconnected again with Seth in Yaoundin when Seth came to stay and to start churches in Yaoundin.

And that’s when they were reconnected.

And he became part of the church in Yaoundin.

And last year he traveled into Bafusam just to visit for a few weeks.

And then he changed his mind.

He was going to stay in Bafuzam even more permanently.

And during this time, I have observed his abilities.

I have observed his carefulness in handling the Word of God.

And I want to think I’ve also seen his gifting as a pastor.

And I’ve been careful about that.

But prayerfully, I think that God has called him to become a pastor.

Mark Gillmore: Yes.

And I have witnessed that gifting.

So really in this last year, it’s been going back to Jesus model, a stage three relationship.

Pastor Earnest: Yes.

Mark Gillmore: You with him.

He’s in your home.

He’s ministering alongside of you.

It’s life on life.

Yes.

And he’s caught your wisdom.

You’ve trained him.

And now the church is going to ordain him as their pastor.

Right.

Recognizing an established godly character and carefulness.

And how old is Orlando?

Orlando is 19.

He’s 19 years old. 19 years old.

And he is being called by God and by his local church to be their pastor.

Pastor Earnest: To be their pastor, right.

Mark Gillmore: And I’m thinking of that verse in, I believe, 1 Timothy.

Let no one despise your youth, but be an example of the believer.

And he fits that category. right and it’s a joy he preached the other day on sunday he asked me to preach and i told him i said well i had heard about this new pastor at this church and i was really hoping to hear him preach and so i gave a short word and then pastor orlando preached a wonderful message from the life of gideon one that could have been preached anywhere in the churches i come from anywhere in africa with incredible blessing amen and just seeing the hand of god in this young man and again we’re watching god’s hand at work in the harvest a harvest that’s ready that labor is going to come out of that harvest they’re going to be trained underneath those trained on the job growing up and multiplying and it’s a privilege to see that vision advancing i’m so excited about cameroon i am the men that are on your level five six half dozen men probably to a dozen men who have been trained over the last 15 20 years then we’ve got a group of men on the level of bashiru and orlando men have been trained in the last five years this is multiplication right and i think there’s great hope for Cameroon.

Well, young people, if you’re interested in Cameroon, give me a call.

Come visit Pastor Ernest.

He’s fantastic to spend some time with and to see what God is doing.

And we just rejoice in the privilege of being here together.

So, as we always remind you that the only way to stay at peace in a world of uncertainty is to stay on mission with Jesus in his go mission.